Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza • Hacker News Board

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#431

Post by sporkxrocket » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:22 AM UTC

deanCommie wrote: post #284

GoatInGrey wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn't flip to red so much as blue voters in swing states sitting on their hands and abstaining from voting. Now they're looking down the barrel of authoritarianism and they're still unwilling to vote unless Gaza is a fully solved problem. The cruel irony is that this behavior is worsening the situation in Gaza.

And that was always known to have been a counter-productive protest. There's nothing ironic about this. They were told. They didn't care. It was unambiguously clear that no matter how bad you felt Obama/Biden/Harris were on Israel, Trump was/would be worse. If every single human life is worth saving (and it is), it's indisputable that Trump is worse for Gaza than Harris would have been. It was the ultimate Trolley Pr…

Biden literally started the genocide and Harris vowed to continue his policies, so no they are not "better". All they had to do is not support Israel and they would have won the election.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#432

Post by protocolture » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:22 AM UTC

FridayoLeary wrote: post #414

protocolture wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is the only alternative solution the pro palestinian crowd is suggesting is basically that israel should lie down and die. IIRC theres a plan among arab states that would call for a DMZ between Israel and Palestine, theres just no way that Israel would accept their troops manning that DMZ. So it would have to be the US or UN troops manning that border and they dont want to. >It's one of the most dehumani…

>That means the only viable solution is a Single State. They should rehome the refugees, return them to their land, and get over it. Deal with Hamas as the internal matter it is. I'm sorry but that's insane. Did you not hear about what happened on October 7? And the reaction on the palestinian street? If Israel would do as you suggest then the world would find out what real genocide is. A good solution that should sa…

Israel being inconvenienced is not "Real Genocide"

A financial resolution to complete Israeli ethnic cleansing is unlikely.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#433

Post by jjk166 » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:23 AM UTC

abustamam wrote: post #421

throwaway3060 wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger factor was people staying home because they refused any compromise on the issue. For races that swing depending on turnout, this was enough to tip those races red. Hard to say whether this impacted the Presidential election, but it probably did affect some House and Senate races.

Ah, that's a good point. Indeed, I voted Stein over Harris, which is basically the same as staying home (much to my chagrin).

Voting third party isn't the same as staying home. If a third party candidate gets just 5% of the vote, the party gets federal election funds in the next election. This isn't some pipe dream, third parties were crossing that threshold in the 90s. It encourages the major parties to alter their positions to avoid splitting the vote, and if they fail to do so then the third party can gain traction over the long run. Further, if you go to the polls for a third party, you are presumably also voting in down ballot races, where you have significantly more impact whether you vote third party or major party.

Staying home does nothing to combat the two party system, gives no direction to politicians as to which way they ought to move to get your vote in the future, and doesn't allow you to participate in local politics.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#434

Post by sporkxrocket » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:25 AM UTC

dlubarov wrote: post #135

beloch wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Net…

Why would we expect any desirable outcome in this hypothetical though? So the US flips, Israel is pressured into withdrawing, Hamas regains control of the strip and resumes rocket attacks, Israel is forced to respond eventually. It doesn't seem like a path toward a real solution.

The US and all other nations sanction Israel. If that doesn't work, military intervention. Israel will fall, it's just a matter of time.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#435

Post by sporkxrocket » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:25 AM UTC

UmGuys wrote: post #410

therobots927 wrote: post #60

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

Serious question, will you abstain from voting? There are only 2 parties and they both fund Israel. One maybe slightly less.

Yes, I will. I will not vote for anyone who supports Israel. My vote is here for the taking, I just need to see an anti-Zionist candidate.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#436

Post by sporkxrocket » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:27 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #345

therobots927 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. That’s why I won’t vote unless someone NOT funded by AIPAC is on the ballot.

> I won’t vote unless someone NOT funded by AIPAC is on the ballot Then you're electorally irrelevant. Particularly if your only civic (in)action is not voting.

No, they're a vote that can be won by someone willing to stand up to AIPAC. I also will not vote for a Zionist. At some point, if we live in a real democracy, someone will put winning an election over being controlled by Israel.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#437

Post by bombcar » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:37 AM UTC

nialv7 wrote: post #297

MangoToupe wrote: post #80

I'm afraid the latest spate of "recognizing the state of Palestine" is not, in fact, a sign of coming relief for the people there, but rather a spigot to relieve domestic pressure to engage in substantive actions (sanctions, pressuring the US and other suppliers of arms to engage in sanctions, let alone sending peacekeepers or no-fly zones). Regardless of how much you're personally invested in the topic, this should…

> break the hearts of everyone who dreamed that the international community could hold each other legally accountable. this is never going to happen. there is just no practical enforcement mechanism. laws and police works within a sovereign country because the state has the monopoly on violence, this is not true on the international stage. no country will go into war to enforce an ICC/ICJ conviction.

A country that wanted an excuse might use it.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#438

Post by l2silver » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:38 AM UTC

I see a lot of comments here are about how other countries should react to this designation, rightfully so.

I wonder also though, how Israel will react. Is this anything new for them?

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#439

Post by jjk166 » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:40 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #349

imglorp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, both parties were supportive in the last election. Not many choices.

> both parties were supportive in the last election. Not many choices. Primaries. The truth is that foreign policy rarely flips American elections. Particularly when we don't have our troops on the ground.

Last election the democrats didn't have a primary, and the republicans barely had one. Political change requires more than one day at the polls; it demands large scale sustained effort by many people, including those in positions of prominence, and even with that success takes time and luck.

Part of being in a leadership position is taking responsibility for what happens on your watch. The electorate can't be blamed for its leaders not doing their jobs when the their leadership is needed.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#440

Post by pcthrowaway » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 1:41 AM UTC

AuthAuth wrote: post #404

zipzapzip wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

this is a baseless conspiracy. There is an entire report going over the operational failures that allowed oct 7th to happen and it wasnt the idf intentionally standing aside to let it happen. Also friend fire is predicted to be in the single digits and I dont think any has actually been confirmed.

Read the UN fact-finding report, particularly starting at page 44 ("Israeli Security Forces counter-offensive and the application of the ‘Hannibal Directive"): https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/a-hrc-...

It's true that the casualties of the Israeli counter-offensive can only conclusively be tied to ~20-30 casualties, but for many casualties it's unknown who is responsible, and there is (inconclusive) evidence Israeli fire resulted in the burning of 77 vehicles, many of which were returning to Gaza with captives (or their bodies)

It seems unlikely to me there were fewer than 80 civilian casualties (out of 815) attributable to friendly fire, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that number is over 200.