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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#431

Post by dzhiurgis »

klardotsh wrote: post #238
dzhiurgis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NZ you can get a Leaf for $1-2k, about 50km range remaining.

I'm guessing distances in NZ are shorter, or you're only planning to use that vehicle in the urban city core. Here in the US, 50km range barely gets me to the ferry terminal to get into Seattle, and that's assuming 50km is at 55mph rural highway speeds and isn't assuming I'm driving 25mph in the city. Put otherwise: if the battery is so degraded you only get 30mi/50km range out of it, I see why it's selling for $2000…

Definitely only as a secondary/ runabout car. You’d need a proper one occasionally. Shame car share isn’t well established yet cuz that would be viable alternative.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#432

Post by 01100011 »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #273
chelmzy wrote: post #251

Crazy he wouldn't go for a Bolt. I just bought a 2019 Chevy Bolt w/ 11k miles for $14.5k (so a bit over 10k after federal rebate). It has a brand new battery because all the Bolts were recalled for battery issues. Has around 250m range. Feel like I won the lottery. Still plenty of them available https://www.donohooauto.com/searchused.aspx?Make=Chevrolet&M...

I have a lease end coming up and the Bolt/EUV are on my radar, but one significant advantage that Leafs have is that the lower trims can have their head unit swapped out for a nice Pioneer or Sony unit from Crutchfield, just like is possible with many ICE vehicles, which can get you a nicer infotainment experience (including wireless CarPlay/AA) that isn’t encrusted with rent-seeking gunk.

IIRC my 2019 Bolt had android auto but required the USB cable be plugged-in. My aftermarket, China-special head unit in the old car I've been driving lately has wireless Android Auto and while it's cool, it's still effectively wired due to how quickly it drains my Pixel 8 Pro's battery.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#433

Post by culopatin »

geerlingguy wrote: post #415
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get almost nothing back from your $12k used car? Nonsense, you get a larger fraction back, the annual depreciation continuously slows down. If a 6-year-old Bolt is still worth $14.5k, then an 8- or, say, 12-year-old Bolt isn't worth $0. Most of that depreciation happened in the first year, it's still going to be worth $12k or $9k. For example, Jeff's 2023 Leaf originally sold for about $30k. Now, just TWO YEARS later…

$15k, plus end of year $4k used EV rebate :)

Isn’t that ending soon?

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#434

Post by jopsen »

fusslo wrote: post #138
Bairfhionn wrote: post #24

My Problem was always the Range Anxiety. Until I got an EV and realized it's not really an issue. There is always an App for that (and even on my car the software gets improved in that regard). Infrastructure is getting better, even companies starting to see it as a benefit to have cheap/free chargers at their offices to get people back. I see more and more electric trucks on the roads. It feels good.

is there a term like 'charge anxiety'? I was debating an electric vehicle in 2023. There are maybe 10 people (out of about 200) at work that have electric cars. My teammate is one of the ten. He wakes up early to get a charger. He tracks down the other owners to ask them to use the charger after lunch. They started a group chat about the chargers. My local grocery store has a bank of superchargers right in the middle…

Stayed at my parents for a week where we had to use public chargers.

It wasn't great, even if we had no queues and fast chargers 5 minutes away. In some parts of Denmark I suspect charging infrastructure is overbuilt.

But even with good infrastructure, having to drive to a charger and wait 10-15 minutes is a hassle.

Charging at home is the killer feature. You just always have 80% charge by default.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#435

Post by culopatin »

com2kid wrote: post #327
Workaccount2 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was so close to pulling the trigger on one of these except for 3 factors: It's driving assist platform is now deprecated and no longer receiving area expansions (I know many could not care less), it's charging speed is pretty slow by today's norms, and it will likely retain almost no value as time goes on.

Lane keeping works (poorly) but Bolt's automatic cruise control implementation is really good and works in stop and go traffic and at street speeds. I've used ACS systems before that refused to work in both those scenarios. Charging time for road trips sucks. 99% of my driving is around town. Being a smaller EV it fits city life very well and I just top it off on a 120v plug every night. I got a 2023 fully loaded wit…

10k for a camera in a car the size of a skittle? I’m glad you enjoy it but I can’t understand what I would need it for.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#436

Post by culopatin »

BizarroLand wrote: post #354
pkulak wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's certainly not the cheapest. You can find old Leafs for 5k. People love Bolts, for good reason, and bit them up.

I've seen Leafs for $3k or less. The problem is their battery life is ~10 years max, and replacing the battery costs $5k-$15k. That old leaf may have a 30-50 mile max range. Don't get me wrong, that would still cover 80% of my daily driving needs, but when I need to drive to the big town for work on a moments notice I may not have time to drive home and swap out for my ICE vehicle. I have a pre-order in for the Slate…

My gf had a leaf when she met me and she couldn’t drive back home in one charge. Worked out great for me.

The fact that the range is so ass means you HAVE to charge to 100% every single time, and 80 to 100 takes ages. She’d spend 45min charging for 45min of driving.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#437

Post by geerlingguy »

arbuge wrote: post #221
geerlingguy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$17k minus an extra $2k added to my Camry's trade-in value, and it's eligible for the $4k used vehicle EV tax rebate at the end of the year. So out the door $15k with 36k miles and 94% doh battery, I was satisfied with the deal. At the end of the tax year I'll have paid $11k for the car, effectively. I tacked on the price of the CHAdeMO adapter mentally to the price I offered, since I knew I'd want it for the one or…

Re: the tax credit, note the income requirements here: https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/used-clean-vehicle-cr... I don't know anything about your situation, but I'm guessing quite a bit of the readers here on HN from the US won't qualify.

My YouTube (mostly now) income is a fraction of what I used to make as a software architect—I'm well within the limits these days :)

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#438

Post by mleonhard »

According to IIHS insurance loss data, https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/auto-insurance/insurance... , here's the chance of being injured while riding in one of these cars (and filing an insurance claim) relative to the average US vehicle:

    - Nissan Leaf -15% (Select "Small" & "4-door Cars" on the page)
    - Chevy Bolt -34%
    - Subaru Crosstrek -28% ("Station wagons" & "Small")
    - Tesla Model 3 +26% ("Luxury cars" & "Midsize")
So the choice of Nissan Leaf was OK from a safety perspective, but the Chevy Bolt is better. The Tesla is much worse.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#439

Post by devnullbrain »

blank_fan_pill wrote: post #287
Workaccount2 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was so close to pulling the trigger on one of these except for 3 factors: It's driving assist platform is now deprecated and no longer receiving area expansions (I know many could not care less), it's charging speed is pretty slow by today's norms, and it will likely retain almost no value as time goes on.

> it will likely retain almost no value as time goes on. If you're buying a car as an investment I have bad news for you...

If you're buying a car as an investment then you're only marginly more foolish than if you're buying a car without considering varying levels of depreciation as part of the running costs.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#440

Post by loeg »

taftster wrote: post #400
mtlynch wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sale qualifies only if: > You buy the vehicle from a dealer. This is such an annoying part of the tax incentive. It's a huge, pointless gift to car dealers (who need no help) because it means they don't have to compete for price with private sellers or buyers. If I have a used EV to sell, I basically have to sell to the dealer because no buyer wants to bother buying from me when they can get the same thing from…

Maybe the car dealers have had a lobbyist that has influenced this to their favor. Wouldn't surprise me. But likewise, there's some formality and paperwork trails that exist when a dealership is involved vs. private party, so I wonder if the concern is some fraud or abuse in the private market as well. Regardless, I agree with you.

Car dealers are a well-known, hugely influential lobby.
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