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Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

cnbc.com

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Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#431

Post by dbg31415 »

throwaway0123_5 wrote: post #355
afcool83 wrote: post #239

I live in one of the areas they are actively testing/training in. Their cars consistently behave better and more safely than most human drivers that I’m forced to share the road with. As semi-autonomous and autonomous cars become the norm, I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road.

> I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road. I think it would be far more effective to make it easier to lose your license than it would be to make getting the license more challenging. The absolute most dangerous drivers I see on the road aren't bad drivers in the sense that they're unskilled at controlling their car. I can't we…

> I think it would be far more effective to make it easier to lose your license than it would be to make getting the license more challenging.

For your system to work, there would actually need to be cops watching traffic.

Since the pandemic, some cities just don't have as many police watching the streets as they used to.

For example, there is virtually no traffic enforcement in Austin now. You see the results with how much people speed now, and how awful some drivers behave on the road.

* Traffic enforcement capacity in Austin dropped significantly -- traffic citations fell about 55% between 2018–2022.

https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Audito...

* As a result, speeding tickets, which once averaged 100 per day in 2017, dropped to about 10 per day by 2021 -- a 90% decrease.

https://www.kut.org/transportation/2022-02-24/austin-police-...

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#432

Post by jakelazaroff »

AngryData wrote: post #417
andelink wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the alternative? Just get who was driving your car to pay you back for the fine. If they are not accountable/honorable enough to back you back, then why were you letting them drive your car in the first place?

The same "alternative" that there is to every other crime in existence, proving the person you charged with a crime actually committed the crime. The default is suppose to be innocence, not guilty. It is the state's responsibility or problem to prove someone is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not a citizen's responsibility to prove their continued innocence at all times.

I mean, the state obviously has photo evidence. So you need to show that either the photo was taken in error, that it misidentified your vehicle or that you weren't the legal owner at the time.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#433

Post by kjkjadksj »

nutjob2 wrote: post #120
kjkjadksj wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does tesla pretend to be autonomous? My friends with tesla fsd use it fully autonomously. It even finds a spot and parks for them.

It's a level 2 system, it can't be operated unattended. Your friends are risking thier lives as several people (now dead) have found out.

I think we are at the point where the data suggests they bear more risk when they drive the tesla themselves. See the bloomburg report on accidents per mile.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#434

Post by kjkjadksj »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #221
kjkjadksj wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does tesla pretend to be autonomous? My friends with tesla fsd use it fully autonomously. It even finds a spot and parks for them.

If I can't use the center console to pick a song on Spotify without the car yelling at me to watch the road, it's not autonomous.

That is for the lawyers not indicative of capability

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#435

Post by jakelazaroff »

AngryData wrote: post #391
peteey wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In FL, a speed camera can give a car's owner can a ticket without needing to know he was the driver. Your perspective is not true nation wide. "The registered owner of the motor vehicle involved in the violation is responsible and liable for paying the uniform traffic citation issued for a violation" http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ...

That seems completely fucked to me. Charging people who aren't guilty of any crime with a crime because somebody else was driving their car?

What do you mean by people who aren't guilty? The infraction here is allowing your vehicle to run a red light.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#436

Post by lokar »

ilamont wrote: post #313
afcool83 wrote: post #239

I live in one of the areas they are actively testing/training in. Their cars consistently behave better and more safely than most human drivers that I’m forced to share the road with. As semi-autonomous and autonomous cars become the norm, I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road.

Traffic enforcement, which used to correct some bad driving, has basically evaporated in many parts of the U.S. This has been a long-term trend. A friend who's a cop told me that only when their department got specific state grants would they set up stings of drivers driving in a pedestrian walkway while someone was crossing the street. Here's an example of one such grant program, which is actually funded by the fede…

Have certification (required) for sensor/video recording systems in self driving cars. Make the data admissible in traffic court.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#437

Post by groggo »

kirubakaran wrote: post #323
groggo wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels less fair though. When everyone is driving x mph over the limit but only you get pulled over, it sucks. So I agree for efficiency of enforcement, but I'd rather see 100% enforcement (automated if possible), with more warnings and lower penalties.

It's only unfair if the innocent are punished. Lot of murders go unsolved. Does that mean the murderers that do get caught are treated unfairly?

That's a pretty extreme example, maybe the idea doesn't hold as much there. But yeah, if 99% of murders weren't prosecuted, the 1% who get charged might feel like they were singled out (and maybe they were, because of some bias or discrimination). Again, 100% enforcement is better.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#438

Post by potato3732842 »

vesrah wrote: post #329
mgens wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A month ago I saw a Waymo turn left into a tiny alley in Palo Alto and continue at full 25mph speed, which was alarming. I guess the alley is marked as a regular road in the software? Highlights how even if it's safer than humans on average, they need to minimize these weird behaviors in order to get socially accepted and avoid $$$ liability when there is an accident.

New speedbumps were installed in a school zone near my housing complex recently, we're a heavy Waymo area and I watched one of them launch itself over one without slowing down.

They installed one of those near my friends house. There's a couple mechanic shops in the vicinity used it for diagnosis while driving exactly the posted speed limit. It lasted about a month until the people who complained it into existence complained it out of existence.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#439

Post by aziaziazi »

crazygringo wrote: post #270
enricozb wrote: post #193

NYC is so dense it could be a bikers' paradise in the US. Why are we supporting even more car infrastructure :/

Because half the year it's freezing cold or blistering hot? With CitiBike and so many bike lanes it basically already is a biker's paradise. Obviously there could be lots more improvements, but the people who want to bike already do.

Every fall on Brussels there's an ad for public bikes. It reads "Ride a bike, it warms you up" (Faites du vélo, ça réchauffe).

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#440

Post by groggo »

foobarian wrote: post #354
groggo wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels less fair though. When everyone is driving x mph over the limit but only you get pulled over, it sucks. So I agree for efficiency of enforcement, but I'd rather see 100% enforcement (automated if possible), with more warnings and lower penalties.

The problem with 100% enforcement is it doesn't allow law enforcement any discretion, and then you end up having to actually officially change the speed limit which would probably never happen

Definitely true in practice, but I don't think we want discretion. What I mean though is as a deterrent, you can either have a "fair" fine that's enforced 100% of the time, or 2x the "fair" amount with 50% enforcement, etc. When it's 100x the "fair" amount with 1% enforcement, and you see everyone else not being enforced, it feels unfair.
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