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95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

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Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#431
post #106

My daughter, as an intern, created a whole set of prompts for a metal fab that extracted all the metal parts out of a CAD file (or PDF) and dimensions so it's easier for them to bid. Saved them hours of work. Of course, they didn't spend on "AI" per se. Most people don't know how to meta their job functions, so AI won't really be worth it. And the productivity gains may not be measurable ie: "I did this in 5 minutes…

This sounds fascinating! I'd like to learn more about using AI for CAD file generation - since freecad is miserable to use! Can you share more on this?

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#432
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you just know better than everyone, include the people who do look at user interactions. I know I've done it, so I must be no one.

I guess I'm no one too because I've done plenty of call analyses too.

We should start a company!

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how you got that 2.2% of 18.5 trillion in GDP attributed to labor is 61 billion, so I’d agree that math doesn’t seem accurate. Additionally, you seemed to have pulled the cherry-picked quote and compared with the “current” impact and ignored the immediately following text on latent automation exposure (partially extracted for quote) that explains how it could have a greater impact that results in their 2…

>I’m not sure how you got that 2.2% of 18.5 trillion in GDP attributed to labor is 61 billion The number I googled for 2024 US GDP was 29.18 trillion, so thats part of it. I'm flexibke enough to adjust that if wrong. >Additionally, you seemed to have pulled the cherry-picked quote and compared with the “current” impact and ignored the immediately following text on latent automation exposure There's no time scale pres…

I would consider reading the actual report more closely rather than an article of questionable accuracy. For example:

> “For instance, an employee can adjust based on new instructions, previous mistakes, and situational needs. A generative AI model cannot carry that memory across tasks unless retrained.”

This is factually false; that is exactly what memory, knowledge, and context can do with no retraining. Not having completely solved self adjustment is not a barrier, merely a hurdle already currently in research. Imagine if, like the human brain, an LLM were to apply training cases identified throughout the day while it “slept”; the author seems to think this would be a massive undertaking of “retraining”. And sorry, if you’ve worked with many of the same types of employees I have over there years, you’d already know that the suggestion employees are more easily adaptable, will remember across tasks, and are good at adjusting to situational needs, can be laughable and even detrimental to think, depending on the person.

The statement seems to be based more on the complaint of a lawyer who has no actual AI technical expertise; hardly the best source for what things AI can and cannot do “currently”. It’s useful to consider that almost all of the subjective opinions expressed in this report come from, effectively, 300 or so (maybe less) individuals, and that it isn’t all that easy to distinguish between the findings that are truly fact-based or opinion-based, especially with the linked post.

It is also important to note that this report seems to focus more on the feedback and data from CEOs who look at P&L, not intrinsic or unquantified values. How do you directly quantify a developer fixing 3 bugs instead of 1 in your internal tool? Unless there are layoffs attributed to this specifically, and not “market changes” or general “reorganizations”, how is this quantified? There are a million things AI might do in the future that may not have a massive, or any, clear return on investment. If I buy a better shovel that saves me an hour on digging a trench in my own backyard, how much money did that save me?

GDP is 29.2t, of which an additional google would find that U.S. labor accounts for an estimated 18.5t. 2.2% of 18.5t, or 29.2t, is still not 61m. In most cases, if the simple part of the math doesn’t fit, there are potentially some bigger logic mistakes at play.

Best of luck on your understanding. As I said, I’d suggest maybe starting with direct statements from factual sources and the report rather than those the author (or you) interpreted.

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, I think its sad to see my country dismiss AI and continue to fall behind.

It's alright, I'm not French :) But yeah, I have to be colored surprised. I was certain I was replying to arrogance, rather than (possibly misplaced) admiration. I guess that puts me on the wrong side of the moderation fence. Sorry.

[deleted]

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#435
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. " " Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I have trouble understanding how that guideline applies here. The original article shows how it's possible that we're about to see an AI bubble pop, the parent comment show generic american arrogance[1], and I come up with a historical example of such a mix of hubris and arrogance. If my comment can be characterized as flamebait, it has to be to a lesser degree than the parent, right? And I'm not even claiming that t…

By generic tangent I just meant we ended up arguing about Napoleon of all things! and the flamebait part was the sarcastic/snarky bit.

But I totally get how the GP comment landed the way you describe, but that's why we have guidelines like these:

"Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead."

and (repeating this one) "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

Applying those to the GP comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44974675), while it's true that the first sentence could sound like chest-beating, the rest of the comment was making an interesting point about risk tolerance.

The 'strongest plausible interpretation' might go something like this: "Even if the article is correct that 95% of companies are seeing zero return on AI spend so far, that by no means proves that they're on the wrong track. With a major technical wave like AI, it's to be expected that early efforts will involve a lot of losses. Long-term success may require taking early risk, and those with lesser risk tolerance, who aren't willing to sustain the losses associated with these pathfinding efforts, may find themselves losing out in the long run."

I have no idea whether that's right or not but it would make for a more interesting and less hostile conversation! which is basically what we're shooting for here.

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#436
post #16

We are entering the “Trough of disillusionment.” These hype cycles are very predictable. GPT-5 being panned as a disappointment after endless hype may go down as GenAI’s “jump the shark” moment. It’s all fun and games until the bean counters start asking for evidence of return on investment. GenAI folks better buckle up. Bumps ahead. The smart folks are already quietly preparing for a shift to ride the next hype wave…

I would bet on Robotics in general, humanoids and other type robots

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#437

Here is the report: https://mlq.ai/media/quarterly_decks/v0.1_State_of_AI_in_Bus... The story there is very different than what's in the article. Some infos: - 50% of the budgets (the one that fails) went to marketing and sales - the authors still see that AI would offer automation equaling $2.3 trillion in labor value affecting 39 million positions - top barriers for failure is Unwillingness to adopt new tools, Lack…

That's my assessment of the report as well.... really, some news truly is "fake" where they are pushing a narrative that they think will drive clicks and eyeballs, and the media is severely misrepresenting what is in this report. The failure is not AI, but that a lot of existing employees are not adopting the tools or at least not adopting the tools provided by their company. The "Shadow AI economy" they discuss is a…

My team has been chewed out for "just because it didn't work once, you need to keep trying it." That feels, to be blunt, almost religious. Claude didn't bless you because you didn't pray often enough and weren't devout enough.

Maybe we need to not just say "people aren't adopting it" but actually listen to why.

AI is a new tool with a learning curve. But that means it's a luxury choice-- we can spend our days learning the new tool, trying out toy problems, building a workflow, or we can continue to use existing tools to deliver the work we already promised.

It's also a tool with an absolutely abysmal learning model right now. Think of the first time you picked up some heavy-duty commercial software (Visual Studio, Lotus 1-2-3, AutoCAD, whatever). Yes, it's complex. But for those programs, there were reliable resources and clear pathways to learn it. So much of the current AI trend seems to be "just keep rewording the prompt and asking it to think really hard and add more descriptive context, and eventually magic happens." This doesn't provide a clear path to mastery, or even solid feedback so people can correct and improve their process. This isn't programming. It's pleading with a capricious deity. Frustration is understandable.

If I have to use AI, I find I prefer the Cursor experience of "smarter autocomplete" than the Claude experience of prompting and negotiation. It doesn't have the "special teams" problem of having to switch to an entirely different skill set and workflow in the middle of the task, and it avoids dumping 2000 line diffs so you aren't railroaded into accepting something that doesn't really match your vision/style/standards.

What would I want to see in a prompt-based AI product? You'd have much more documented, formal and deterministic behaviour. Less friendly chat and more explicit debugging of what was generated and why. In the end, I guess we'd be reinventing one of those 1990s "Rapid Application Development" environments that largely glues together pre-made components and templates, except now it burns an entire rainforest to build one React SPA. Has anyone thought about putting a chat-box front end around Visual Basic?

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how you got that 2.2% of 18.5 trillion in GDP attributed to labor is 61 billion, so I’d agree that math doesn’t seem accurate. Additionally, you seemed to have pulled the cherry-picked quote and compared with the “current” impact and ignored the immediately following text on latent automation exposure (partially extracted for quote) that explains how it could have a greater impact that results in their 2…

>I’m not sure how you got that 2.2% of 18.5 trillion in GDP attributed to labor is 61 billion The number I googled for 2024 US GDP was 29.18 trillion, so thats part of it. I'm flexibke enough to adjust that if wrong. >Additionally, you seemed to have pulled the cherry-picked quote and compared with the “current” impact and ignored the immediately following text on latent automation exposure There's no time scale pres…

I think you made a arithmetic mistake by factor of 10.

2% of 29 trillion is 580 billions. Your number should be 610 billion, not 61 billion.

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#439

In some products, certain AI features have become expected. If a product doesn’t include them, it risks losing customers, making it a net negative for the market. At this point, companies either invest in AI or risk falling behind.

Can you name some of those products?

A/B Testing: Automate test setup and simplify result analysis. E-commerce: Use AI to generate synonyms for more relevant search results. Issue Tracker: Implement natural language search to find tickets more easily.

Sorry, this are only the categories. But i have actual products in mind.

Re: 95% of Companies See 'Zero Return' on $30B Generative AI Spend

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One use case I'd love to see an easy plug-and-play solution for is a RAG build around companies vast internal documentation/wikis/codebase to help developers onboard and find information faster. I would love to see less of people trying to replace humans with language models and more of people trying to use language models to make humans jobs less frustrating.

In all the companies I have worked at and have looked at such docs, unfortunately this doesn't really work because those internal documentation sites are statistically never up to date or even close. They are hilariously unclearly written or out of date. As for relying on the code base, that is good for code, although not for onboarding/deployment/operations/monitoring/troubleshooting that have manual steps.

^this, but many non-code documents with manual steps can also be kept up-to-date as long as there is a way (a) relate it back to the codebase or another source of truth (b) detect conflicts (when someone says something in contradiction to an existing document)

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