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ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

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Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#431

Post by rwyinuse »

Llamamoe wrote: post #304
Nikolas0 wrote: post #168

My $0.02 as a response to several comments I read in this thread: I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 40s and got Concerta. My belief is that ADHD is not a disease, nor a disability (even though it acts like one very frequently) and in fact there is evidence that ADHD is an important part of our evolution as a species. The problem(s) mostly relies with the modern way of life and what is expected from the society at large…

This is a common belief people have, especially those with mild ADHD or those who wish to be dismissive of the disorder. Unfortunately, in reality while there are some very limited advantages, as a whole ADHD is a whole-brain dysfunction where your neurons are literally incapable of maintaining their level of operation as long as in a healthy person, with ALL of your executive functions - all self-regulation, plannin…

For vast majority of human history most people spent their days doing fairly simple physical work, which didn't require that much sustained focus compared to what an average knowledge worker needs today. Obviously they didn't have smartphones, computers and other forms of distraction either. So really it's quite obvious that most people with ADHD would have done much better in such environment, compared to the unnatural mess we live in today.

So, people with ADHD have always existed, but it's our modern world full of distractions and unnatural work which makes it a much bigger deal than it would otherwise be.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#432

Post by graemep »

notfromhere wrote: post #366
graemep wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is most commonly used a study drug. It is a strong stimulant (more like cocaine than like coffee) and potentially addictive so potentially dangerous and requires medical supervision. it is a formulation of amphetamine.

You aren’t really going to get addicted to therapeutic doses. Recreational doses are like 5-10x what a doctor would prescribe, with restrictive laws in the U.S. you can only get a months supply at a time. Would be pretty dumb to use your months dosage for 3 days of partying

The question was "what abuse are they seeing with Adderral?". Abuse is mostly going to involve illegal supplies and illegal use.

> Would be pretty dumb to use your months dosage for 3 days of partying

It would be, but people can be pretty stupid. I know personally of a case where kids were sharing their doses.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#433

Post by graemep »

adastra22 wrote: post #322
graemep wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is most commonly used a study drug. It is a strong stimulant (more like cocaine than like coffee) and potentially addictive so potentially dangerous and requires medical supervision. it is a formulation of amphetamine.

I didn't realize studying was a crime.

Using controlled substances to study is a crime. Working is not a crime either, but using cocaine to be able to work harder is a crime.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#434

Post by graemep »

adastra22 wrote: post #329
graemep wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "trust the science" is a stupid slogan anyway. Not all science is equally well proven. Who represents the "science" when scientific opinion i divided? Even when there is a consensus there are plenty of examples when a strong consensus has been wrong. The end result is that i tends to make the public regard science as something that they are told by experts, so then it becomes a matter of which experts they tr…

"Trust the science" is anti-science. The whole point of science is that you don't have to "trust" it.

You need to trust the data, of course, and the process is carried out honestly.

Non-specialists in any field cannot understand everything, but I think good communication could still do a lot of effective explaining of evidence.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#435

Post by rwyinuse »

Llamamoe wrote: post #305
homefree wrote: post #133

My hypothesis about this for a long time has been stimulants help everyone be more productive (with some tradeoffs) and ADHD is kind of a weakly differentiated diagnosis that could apply to most people. Probably something like this was lost when people stopped smoking, obviously beneficial for health - but a huge amount of the public was taking stimulants regularly via nicotine until relatively recently.

> and ADHD is kind of a weakly differentiated diagnosis that could apply to most people. It's not, the problem is that it sounds like it because ~everyone faces some (way) lesser version of the struggles ADHD people face literally every day, many of whom probably do have some subclinical degree of executive dysfunction. My personal thumb rule is that somebody is capable of finishing school, autonomously managing thei…

The problem with your rule of thumb is that there can be lots of external factors at play. Like, what if the person happens to be deeply gifted and/or interested in some school subjects, allowing hyperfocus on them? What if there is major external pressure pushing them to take care of their home, do well at school etc?

I think ADHD is a spectrum, which includes those with "ultra-light" symptoms as well. Whether those in the lower-end of the spectrum need stimulant medication is a different matter.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#436

Post by crimsontech »

scns wrote: post #389
Llamamoe wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common belief people have, especially those with mild ADHD or those who wish to be dismissive of the disorder. Unfortunately, in reality while there are some very limited advantages, as a whole ADHD is a whole-brain dysfunction where your neurons are literally incapable of maintaining their level of operation as long as in a healthy person, with ALL of your executive functions - all self-regulation, plannin…

> People also like to claim we'd be better as lookouts or sentries but this isn't true. People with ADHD don't pay more attention to a broader range of things Have to disagree. Noticing every small noise a neurotypical Brain filters out makes you a good canary.

I've done a huge number of hours on sentry duty (unmedicated) and the the hour would either pass by in an instant and I wouldn't even realise it, or it would seem to drag on for hours.

One thing I certainly couldn't do was pay attention to nothing happening for an hour just incase something happened.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#437

Post by fragmede »

rollulus wrote: post #286
Nikolas0 wrote: post #168

My $0.02 as a response to several comments I read in this thread: I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 40s and got Concerta. My belief is that ADHD is not a disease, nor a disability (even though it acts like one very frequently) and in fact there is evidence that ADHD is an important part of our evolution as a species. The problem(s) mostly relies with the modern way of life and what is expected from the society at large…

You might enjoy reading “The ADHD advantage” by Anders Hansen. He describes the evolutionary explanation as well.

I enjoyed reading Jurassic Park, for all it had to do with science.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#438

Post by Aerbil313 »

cardanome wrote: post #139
jackdoe wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> handle rejection poorly Off-topic but recently I found out about Sensitive Rejection Dysphoria, its not officially recognized as a thing but it is in active study now, and very related to ADHD, and tbh I wish I knew about it sooner

Yes, knowing about RSD was life changing for me. Before I had my ADHD diagnosis, I just assumed that I have social anxiety and tried to fix it myself by giving me exposure therapy. I would force myself to seek out any social interaction regardless on how I felt. The result was that I got worse, so much worse because I was basically trained myself to disregard my emotions. Turns out being undiagnosed with ADHD is trau…

That's the weird thing about neurodivergence. I forced myself for a year to finally "come out of my shell" and socialize in the college. On the surface I succeeded, got a friend group, hanging out frequently. Nothing improved, at the end of the year I was dreading any social interaction more than ever.

Turns out I had AuDHD and I was masking (pretending to be neurotypical when around people). Can't tell you how exhausting that is. I cut off all my friends and couldn't be happier since.

Some people are simply not wired to socialize.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#439

Post by NegativeK »

Nikolas0 wrote: post #168

My $0.02 as a response to several comments I read in this thread: I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 40s and got Concerta. My belief is that ADHD is not a disease, nor a disability (even though it acts like one very frequently) and in fact there is evidence that ADHD is an important part of our evolution as a species. The problem(s) mostly relies with the modern way of life and what is expected from the society at large…

Respectfully, my experience is very different than yours -- and I'm somewhere in between you and people who have it really bad.

ADHD can absolutely be a handicap. It might be that it's exacerbated by modern life's demands, but I frankly can't be bothered to care -- I live with these symptoms that I wish would go away, and I can't switch to some world that would work well with them.

And it's not rejecting myself or trying to be someone I'm not. I spent quite a while before diagnosis doing that. Getting treatment for and acknowledging the issues of ADHD is being more aware of who I am and what I need than pretending that things will work out. They don't, and they didn't.

And I know my experience isn't unique.

Re: ADHD drug treatment and risk of negative events and outcomes

#440

Post by gosub100 »

safety1st wrote: post #335
bawolff wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other drugs are made outside the USA, what is so special about adderal (besides us regulations which other countries dont have to listen to)

Probably that it's basically a weaker form of meth. I mean they're chemically similar, they have the same effects, adderall is potentially addictive, nobody wants to end up dealing with something similar to America's meth epidemic. That's not to say you can't manufacture and prescribe this drug safely, but a lot more people are going to have a lot more reservations about it than if you want to crank out a generic Tyl…

If that was true there would be a shortage of pain pills
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