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Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

josefprusa.com

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Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#431

Post by platevoltage »

therouwboat wrote: post #174
conorbergin wrote: post #44

If you are a hobbyist or small business in desktop manufacturing you are basically forced to buy Chinese products. I have never owned a Prusa, but I have owned several Creality and Bambu Labs printers, because I could get the same utility at half the cost. The same goes for soldering irons, linear actuators, oscillscopes, etc. I still buy European hand tools (Knipex, Wera, etc) because I know they won't break in a ye…

I have Creality Ender3 v3 and Prusa mk4s and they are not the same, you can get them to produce same quality, but ender requires more tinkering and I have had more failed prints. Creality software is awful, you get no firmware updates for a year and then you get 4 on same day, like do they even test before release? Slicer is also buggy and default settings seem to be max everything, so its loud and fast and has print…

I just got a Creality K1 Max and I'm over the moon with it. Granted, my only frame of reference was a Prusa i3 knockoff kit I bought almost 10 years ago, upgraded with 3d printed parts, replaced the power supply with one from an old server, and added dual extruders. Basically If I wanted to use it, I'd have to tinker for hours to get a print started, and printing anything too large would almost definitely fail, or warp off the bed.

I've done multiple prints on the K1 Max where I started it, went to bed, and it was there, finished for me in the morning.

Since I'm familiar with the process, I just jumped straight to using OrcaSlicer and never touched creality's software. It definitely feels like Chinese hardware is progressing much quicker than their software.

I need an enclosed design and wanted to go coreXY, and Prusa's offering in that category was out of my budget, but they seem like a fabulous company.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#432

Post by sinker »

ohdeargodno wrote: post #236
sarchertech wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not better in every way. For long term reliability and ability to repair and upgrade, Prusa is far superior.

Cool, but that's not why people buy things. I don't buy a bike for the pleasure of getting to repair it when I inevitably eat shit on a gravel road. While you're busy ordering parts for your Prusa and taking it apart, people just buy another A1 or P1P for basically nothing. While you're spending 5 hours trying to stabilise your printing plate and ensuring your nozzle isn't vomiting out super melted , the bambulabs go…

Are you confusing Prusa with older Enders? If you buy assembled, they just work like any other modern printer. In fact they're known for long-term reliability. If there's any detraction, it's on the basis of printing speed, price, and availability, but not on fragility.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#433

Post by sinker »

ohdeargodno wrote: post #260
zevon wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't care how expensive and complicated it is to repair and maintain your mountain bike (especially if you plan to eat gravel a lot)? And your take on machines is that you better throw away a bunch of working 3D printers and replace them instead of upgrading the old ones and adding new ones as needed? Hope you have a lot of money to burn in your personal and business life. ;)

Another user made the point: maybe you care about 3D printERS. The vast majority of people care about the printed end result, and buying more printers in the case of massive failure (which is already rare) makes more sense. If you're 3D printing for fun at home, a Bambu will basically never break. Spending 3 days tracking down the parts for a Prusa, taking it apart, fixing it, realising some settings have gone to shi…

Okay, but that is a complete misrepresentation of Prusa machines. You can buy a Prusa today and it'll spit out prints like any other modern printer. And this has been the case for a long time now. Only a small minority of people actually tinker with their machines. It seem like you're attacking a complete projection.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#434

Post by capyba »

MegaDeKay wrote: post #188
alnwlsn wrote: post #117

Not IP related, but I built a Voron printer a while ago, which is sort of the last word in DIY printers. It's not so much a printer as a parts list and set of instructions, but something that's not lost on me is that most of the core components are Chinese parts. I don't just mean screws and bearings (though they are too), you might install a board like this [0] which is a Chinese designed board I'd describe as open-…

I bought my Voron Trident as a kit (from a Chinese company) and it is wonderful. As you say, there is an almost complete dependence on components made in China, but at least I can swap out / fix / upgrade parts as much as I like. I've also been able to make use of the schematics on the controller boards to troubleshoot issues myself and other people were having. Very happy I went this route vs Bambu. This printer is…

I was thinking the same but got a prusa kit instead. Have you use or built a prusa before - how do they compare? At some point I’ll want two printers and was thinking a voron or similar would be perfect because I could print parts for it now.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#435

Post by hyperbovine »

sarchertech wrote: post #418
mrheosuper wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he was comparing what he had. If you sent him the latest prusa printer, i bet he will compare it for you.

> want so much to like Prusa ... but the Bambu printer at my local makerspace costs half as much and is better in every way than the MK3S+ sitting in my basement. I'm fully aware that this is the result of shrewdness on the part of the Chinese, plus incompetence in the West, and it's so frustrating. Then maybe don’t phrase it like this. And also acknowledge that it’s a nonsense comparison. People that don’t know Prus…

Let me clarify. I paid $325 for a used MK3S+ and that seems to be the going rate. The printers at the Makerspace are A1 and A1 minis. The former cost $399 or less on sale, and the latter definitely under $300 always. So yes, the comparison seems fair.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#436

Post by BrenBarn »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #414
BrenBarn wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a factor, but I also wonder whether the key morpheme there isn't the "mega" in "megacorps". If, say, entity A attempting to enforce IP against entity B had to pay fees proportional to the size ratio (e.g., Megacorp enforcing against Little Joe's Software requires a $1 billion fee from Megacorp), things would be different. The problem there is identifying the relevant entity, and I think that is the key. And it's…

Just ignore the size of the plaintiff and make everything depend on the size of the defendant. Is the defendant a huge megacorp? Make every inference against them. Is it a tiny small business? Give them every benefit of the doubt. Then if megacorp tries to set up a tiny shell company to do their dirty work, you just ignore the shell company and sue the megacorp. Whereas if something is actually a small business, ther…

That's an interesting idea, but I don't want to let small operators run roughshod over other small operators.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#437

Post by odo1242 »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #394
odo1242 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(source: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/stee... )

This is a better link that directly talks about "pay-to-stay" fees (prison reimbursement). Your link mostly talks about courte fees. https://endpaytostay.org/pdf/pay-to-stay-report-20250622.pdf

Ah yes, good point

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#438

Post by snapetom »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #302
jwr wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even care much about cost, but the Bambu Lab printers are simply better. I have been selling my Prusas (MK3S+ and XL), because they are just too much of a hassle. Prusa has fallen behind in R&D, the Bambu Lab printers work better, are more automated, have more nicely engineered features (having to babysit my XL and wipe the dripping filament off the print heads was such a disappointment). And yes, I have had…

It cannot be overstated how critical good defaults and “just works” are for any kind of mass-market product. Knobs and toggles to allow enthusiasts to dial in everything perfectly aren’t a bad thing. You don’t need make your product a featureless orb. That said, users shouldn’t need to tinker around with any of them to get up and running or for basic use. This is where Bambu excels. More involved printers are simply…

I got into 3D printing a year ago and decided on the Bambu. I started with a P1P to see if I'd like it, got an AMS, got an enclosure in the span of about 9 months. Would I have saved money if I got all of that at once? Of course. But I didn't know if I'd like 3D printing. The P1P worked so well and so easily, it was a "gateway" and did suck me in.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#439

Post by snapetom »

jwr wrote: post #250
hyperbovine wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want so much to like Prusa ... but the Bambu printer at my local makerspace costs half as much and is better in every way than the MK3S+ sitting in my basement. I'm fully aware that this is the result of shrewdness on the part of the Chinese, plus incompetence in the West, and it's so frustrating.

I don't even care much about cost, but the Bambu Lab printers are simply better. I have been selling my Prusas (MK3S+ and XL), because they are just too much of a hassle. Prusa has fallen behind in R&D, the Bambu Lab printers work better, are more automated, have more nicely engineered features (having to babysit my XL and wipe the dripping filament off the print heads was such a disappointment). And yes, I have had…

Case in point, the AMS. The Bambu system is so clean. It sits on top of the printer even if you don't have an enclosure. The Prusa system requires you to lay the spools out on runners on the table, taking up a ton of desk space.

Re: Open hardware desktop 3D printing is dead?

#440

Post by AnthonyMouse »

BrenBarn wrote: post #436
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just ignore the size of the plaintiff and make everything depend on the size of the defendant. Is the defendant a huge megacorp? Make every inference against them. Is it a tiny small business? Give them every benefit of the doubt. Then if megacorp tries to set up a tiny shell company to do their dirty work, you just ignore the shell company and sue the megacorp. Whereas if something is actually a small business, ther…

That's an interesting idea, but I don't want to let small operators run roughshod over other small operators.

How do you propose it could ever be otherwise? Under this system it's hard to sue small entities, but under any system it's generally useless to sue small entities except as a harassment mechanism because they don't have any money to pay damages anyway.
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