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Our $100M Series B

oxide.computer

431–440 of 522 posts

Re: Our $100M Series B

#431
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they aren't unheard of at all, co-ops have had slow but steady growth in the market for some decades now.

I’m not sure I follow. In what market(s)?

Agriculture has a lot, utility services including fiber internet, electrical, and natural gas, many credit unions, there are a few retail stores like REI, mutual insurances, a number of pharmacies and homecare and other health services are co-op, many other worker co-ops, and there are a decent number of housing co-ops. Other than maybe a few rural fiber co-ops most are not super fast growing businesses, and they lack attention seeking rich owners, so they don't get a lot of attention, but co-ops as a whole has steadily gained more market presence nearly across the board over the decades.

Re: Our $100M Series B

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are! https://oxide.computer/careers

I just have to say this is an incredible page. Everything is well thought out and there's no BS. The salary is upfront too and everything is remote. A gold standard for hiring pages?

Paying everyone at the company a flat rate of $207k, no matter their role or location, is quite the concept.

Re: Our $100M Series B

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I knew it was bad but I didn’t realize just how bad the pricing spread can be until I started dealing with the GPU instances (8x A100 or H100 pods). Last I checked the on-demand pricing was $40/hr and the 1-year reserved instances were $25/hr. That’s over $200k/yr for the reserved instances so within two years I’d spend enough to buy my own 8x H100 pod (based on LambdaLabs pricing) plus enough to pay an engineer to b…

That's just hardware. If you need to build and maintain your own devops tooling it can balloon in complexity and cost real quick. It would still likely be much cheaper to do everything in house, but you would be assuming a lot of risks and locking yourself in losing flexibility. There is a reason people go with AWS over many competing cheaper cloud providers.

> There is a reason people go with AWS over many competing cheaper cloud providers.

Opportunity cost.

The evolutionary fitness landscape hasn't yet provided an escape hatch for paying this premium, but in time it will.

Re: Our $100M Series B

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First let me say I really like this part of your guys narrative: you have really strong opinions about how infrastructure and IT should work at many levels, like technically and aesthetically, that seems real and nice and likable. Focusing on just this financial narrative you're weaving, what stops a bank from selling "virtual racks" that work financially the same as owning an Oxide rack, but it's just AWS? $1m buys…

> what stops a bank from selling "virtual racks" that work financially the same as owning an Oxide rack, but it's just AWS? I'm struggling to understand what you're suggesting here, to be honest. First of all, banks don't sell cloud compute, so no bank is going to do that. Secondly, what does "work financially the same" mean? These are fundamentally different products, AWS is a service, Oxide is purchasing hardware t…

> I'm struggling to understand what you're suggesting here, to be honest. First of all, banks don't sell cloud compute, so no bank is going to do that. Secondly, what does "work financially the same" mean? These are fundamentally different products, AWS is a service, Oxide is purchasing hardware that you then own.

You're telling me it's important to people to "own" instead of "rent." Well I can manufacture an "Own" out of a "Rent": I write up a contract for my customer that says "$1,000,000 for 100 EPYC servers", I ship an empty steel box, the end user gets an AWS account which they cannot add anything to, and it has 100 EPYC server metal instances in it. I pay the bills in that account. Okay? Now I have created "owning" out of renting.

If we pontificate on the objective value of owning versus renting, such as the ability to sell the hardware, I can manufacture that too: you might want to sell your empty steel box 5 years later, and I will buy it from you for $300,000. Or maybe the value of owning versus renting is that owning is "cheaper" than AWS. Okay, I'll sell the rack for $500,000 instead of $1,000,000. Do you see?

The important part of course is, I didn't have to make any racks. I didn't have to write any software. I give people something they really, really want, AWS, and I give it to them in the shape of an "Own." Of course, your "Own" and my "Own" are different, but whose "Own" is more different from a typical IT purchaser? You guys know 100x better than me.

I agree that it sounds stupid though. That's BAD. If it sounds stupid to manufacture an "Own" out of a "Rent", and it is an arbitrage, and it also is something people like, that is BAD for you. If it sounds like something banks should not be involved in, that is BAD. Banks are involved in extremely lucrative businesses!

> First of all, banks don't sell cloud compute, so no bank is going to do that.

Ha ha, but this is what you do! You might not be a bank, but you are a $100m bank account. You're more bank than I am today. And you are selling something - you know, you say you sell a rack, and you say, "that's the business," and there are people on this thread - and this is not at all an unorthodox opinion - who are saying, what is really the material difference between cloud and on-premises compute, when the interfaces between the two look so similar?

A huge difference is "Rent" versus "Own" which is why we are talking about it and why you brought it up. But I am showing you that you can manufacture an "Own" out of a "Rent," and it would be interesting to see, well, should I take $100m and spend $200m on R&D with it (ha ha), or should I take $100m and directly fuel it into a flywheel of reselling AWS into a shape that people like, which is "Own" instead of "Rent"?

> Hardware and software, working together.

See it's stuff like this that says to me, "Apple (Minus the iPhones) of Racks." That is really your thinking. It's about buying experiences. You guys are answering this question, clearly, in your own rhetoric. Because if it was really about "Own" versus "Rent," a bank could do it.

Re: Our $100M Series B

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, good news: we have one of those too![0] [0] https://oxide.computer/blog/hubris-and-humility

Oh I am well aware. But I am hoping to run dynamic workloads, including virtual Linux machines, on a PC. It's a bit of a different world. Latest one still in my to-read pile: https://lwn.net/Articles/1022920/

You want to run dynamic workloads on a PC? As in a desktop PC? That is clearly a completely different market than Oxide serves.

Or do you mean PC as in rackmounted servers? If that's what you meant, PC is a very poor word for it. That's kind of the point Oxide made from the beginning. Why are you running server workloads on a PC with a funny shape? Why do you need 84 power supplies (2/shelf) in your rack? Why do you need any keyboard or graphics controllers? Why don't you design for purpose a rack-sized server?

Or did you mean exactly what you wrote: "a PC"? You only need one server, not a whole rack's worth? Again, that is not the market Oxide is targeting.

Or you need to be able to run "dynamic workloads" that could require 40-4000 CPUs? You need hypervisors and orchestration, etc.? And you don't want them to be Solaris, or to run on Solaris? And you know all about Hubris and you don't want that either? But you think it would be nice if they weren't Linux? Maybe if they were modern microkernels written in something like Rust? But not the Hubris microkernel written in Rust?

I'm going to have to take you at your word. Your needs are "a bit of a different world" than Oxide fits.

But it's pretty cool that you still got some friendly personal attention from two big-name Oxide employees who seem willing to try to help you if they can. If you ever do find yourself in a world that aligns with theirs it appears that they are willing to try to accommodate you.

Re: Our $100M Series B

#436
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud computing is significantly more expensive than self-hosting for most large organizations. People are slowly figuring that out, and Oxide was a bet on the timing of that realization.

That's almost always been true but servers are more like commodities at this point. iphone is nice and upgrade from commodities phone and I have one, but I wouldn't care much if my fridge has sleek UI because I just need it to be a fridge.

Servers are commodities, a on-prem cloud is not.

Re: Our $100M Series B

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I am well aware. But I am hoping to run dynamic workloads, including virtual Linux machines, on a PC. It's a bit of a different world. Latest one still in my to-read pile: https://lwn.net/Articles/1022920/

You want to run dynamic workloads on a PC? As in a desktop PC? That is clearly a completely different market than Oxide serves. Or do you mean PC as in rackmounted servers? If that's what you meant, PC is a very poor word for it. That's kind of the point Oxide made from the beginning. Why are you running server workloads on a PC with a funny shape? Why do you need 84 power supplies (2/shelf) in your rack? Why do you…

We're talking about healthy competition for Linux, Rusty microkernels, and I'm saying Hubris is not what I'm looking for because of the stated reasons. Hubris workloads are defined at build time and it does not target x86.

When I say PC I mean the large ecosystem of compatible performant hardware that exist out there, as opposed to e.g. RISC-V at this stage.

Re: Our $100M Series B

#439
post #83

I'm a Bryan Cantrill fan so I'm glad this is working out, I was extremely skeptical of them at the beginning(on HN too), I think because I've built DCs for many years and was stuck in a mindset that served my use case, I've come around to Oxide. My main concerns originally were 2 fold: "this seems bougie", is there actually a market for this, and, is there a good interoperability story with mix and match. From what I…

I'm a fan just because they have such an incredibly good sounding product. like, it has no relevance to me, I'll never use it, but I get a deep sense of satisfaction just reading about how it works.

Re: Our $100M Series B

#440
Is there a clear hardware upgrade path? Couldn't see it obviously on the website.

The on-prem cloud is definitely the holy grail for many of us, but the justification to the capex and ongoing commitment to owning the hardware would be that it has have just as easy an upgrade path.

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