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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

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431–440 of 955 posts

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#431
post #174
post #87

In ideal world international peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Gaza. The peace and two state solution could only be enforced by imposing severe sanctions on Israel including possibility of aerial NATO strikes like in the former Yugoslavia.

Is two-state solution possible? Just look at the map of the territories under palestinian control, they're bantustans. Israel/Palestine is factually one state, which simply doesn't accept half of its population as citizens. You could also say that "two-state solution" has been tried in 1948, but (for whatever reasons) didn't work out. So support for 2-state is just a form of delaying the inevitable. I am now firm bel…

>You could also say that "two-state solution" has been tried in 1948, but (for whatever reasons) didn't work out.

The Arab world overwhelmingly rejected the UN Partition Plan in principle, which led directly to the 1948 Palestine war and the first Arab-Israeli war. Likewise, the signing of the Oslo Accords (and the rejection of those accords by Hamas, PIJ and other factions within the PLO) led directly to the Second Intifada. Most of the Arab world has now conceded that Israel isn't going anywhere and huge steps have been made in normalising Arab-Israeli relations, but Palestinian politics is still dominated by a fundamentally futile anti-Zionist absolutism.

A credible option of full statehood and international recognition has been on the table for nearly eighty years, but Palestinians have consistently failed to establish a workable consensus on taking up that option. The PLO's intransigence has alienated most of their allies in the region, primarily because they instigated civil wars in both Jordan (1970) and Lebanon (1975).

A one-state solution is no solution at all while there remain extremists on both sides who are simply unwilling to coexist; unless Israel can reign in the religious right and the Palestinians can establish a political consensus in favour of coexistence, it's a straightforward path to war. There's no "poetic justice" in making people who hate each other live together, just an inevitable perpetuation of bloodshed.

The political debates about land rights are intractably complex, but the fundamental realpolitik question is about how much the Palestinians are willing to suffer for the principle of "from the river to the sea". Israel is militarily dominant and is likely to remain so regardless of how much international pressure is brought to bear. In simple practical terms, the ball is in the Palestinian court and it is for them to decide whether to seriously engage in a two (or three) state solution with international support, or whether to continue pursuing an unwinnable conflict. A post-Netanyahu Israel is highly likely to support a serious two-state solution, but simply isn't going to accept a one-state solution; even if you believe a one-state solution to be the only just outcome, it isn't a workable outcome.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#432
post #2

This has been happening regularly over the course of decades on the West Bank but no-one is willing to call it "Terrorism" and therefore respond appropriately.

Israeli jewish settlers murdered, on average, one Palestinian civilian per day in the west bank, for the entire year leading up to oct 11. The attacks on Palestinian civilians in the west bank have only accelerated, since then. Israel is a terrorist organization, not a state.

The word “terrorist” is strictly a political designation, one that allows for dehumanizing and condemning one’s enemies. Israel’s pager attack on Lebanon has all of the hallmarks of a terrorist attack, but the west won’t call it as it is because it’s inconvenient. It was inconvenient to acknowledge that Israel is conducting a full on genocide, so not until very recently did major western news orgs start using the dreaded G word.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#433
post #2

This has been happening regularly over the course of decades on the West Bank but no-one is willing to call it "Terrorism" and therefore respond appropriately.

If you want to see someone refer to acts of the Hilltop Youth as Jewish Terrorism and condemn it, you need only switch to channel 12 (Israeli channel, that is).

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what? The concept of nations is perhaps two centuries old at best. It is true that there are many differing groups of people living in that area, but they were often simply under the dominion of one imperial power or another. This pat caricature is the equivalent of shrugging one's shoulders and saying "well that's how it's always been."

> concept of nations is perhaps two centuries old at best Concept of nation states . Nations and states, separately, are an older concept. > they were often simply under the dominion of one imperial power or another For millennia. Often because inter-ethnic conflicts required an external security guarantor to keep a lid on the chaos. One could argue this history of chaos goes back to the Hittites and Bronze Age colla…

During the times there was an external security guarantor, conflict would by definition go down (assuming the external power was sufficiently potent and stable). So you can't say that both chaos and dominion were happening simultaneously at all times.

> One could argue this history of chaos goes back to the Hittites and Bronze Age collapse.

And one could claim that the history of chaos in Central Europe goes back to the dissolution of the Carolingian Empire, or the Ostsiedlung, or perhaps even before the Romans made contact with the Germani.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#435
post #418
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often don't endorse the behavior of Israeli settlers. I'm responding to the question of what Israelis think about the news in general, a question to which I wanted to contribute the context of Israel's precarious existential security as a sovereign Jewish state.

"Precarious" strikes me as a misleading way to describe a nuclear-armed state (and the only nuclear-armed state in its region).

Do you believe Israel's continued existence is assured?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#436
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you perhaps have sources of those claims at hand?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/7/1/israel-has-killed-10...

if you will read the article, you will see that it talks about IDF and settlers. PA in fact called in IDF to suppress hamas and pij in areas that PA tried to clear out but failed.

Articles like this on purpose blur lines of what happening and meant to generate outrage. Once I traced back article that talked about 48 (or something) palestinians killed by settlers by going through listed sources in the article. when I got to original article (twice removed), I discovered that it talked about 47 killed by IDF and 1 killed in clashes between settlers and palestinians

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#437
post #371

I don't like these "experiments" as dang called them of allowing Reddit-like rage topics on HN. I can get that elsewhere.

It’s worth reading the thread - there is a lot here that was new to me and I follow the news and read the history of the region.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#438
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israeli here, can't directly answer your question since I've lived in the US for 99% of my adult life, but I consider myself pro-Israel and resent the way Israel is currently/always being portrayed. I see the key problem as people removing context: Context for why the current situation could easily be different if Hamas acted/acts differently, and context for why there is no "just stop fighting" option that leaves Is…

>the way Israel is currently/always being portrayed Israeli soldiers, politicians, and many civilians are portraying themselves this way. Soldiers post videos sniping a child in the head calling it a "legendary video", politicians say Palestinians should starve, civilians block aid trucks. Do you resent the way they are portrayed or do you mean you resent what a lot of Israelis are doing?

[flagged]

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#440
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is what Israel has been willing to face, from their continuous settlement expansions, to occupation of resources, to negligence of international law. Israel believes in (winning) conflicts. For as long as they have power and illusion of victory, they will brazenly ignore human suffering and wage war against anyone who stands in their way, and whatever fallout happens is what they secretly want for justification…

This kind of worldview is very common in religious extremists.

Unfortunately this kind of conflict only seems to create more religious extremism.

Kind of how rape victims can be abusers themselves maybe

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