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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#431

Post by topspin »

sgjohnson wrote: post #100
giantg2 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most newer handguns don't have manual safeties. The ones that do should be carried with it on. If you carry with it off, you won't have the muscle memory to switch it off in the event it is accidentally engaged. Basically, if it has the safety, you should be doing the motion for disengaging it regardless of it's starting position. Some people still choose to carry with it off. You get into all sorts of odd stuff the…

FWIW I love the 1911-style grip safety. It’s a shame that more guns don’t have that.

The Springfield XD line has this. At least one S&W Shield model as well. Both are excellent pistols. Not that you're wrong: grip safeties aren't common.

It's amazing to me this P320 problem exists. Making semi-autos safe, even without a grip safety, has been a solved problem for over 40 years. How anyone thought a fully cocked striker is a reasonable design, or that the US military would adopt such a thing, is a disturbing mystery.

After Sig gets financially destroyed, and the US military has to correct this monumental mistake, we can at least look forward to no further designs like this. Who knows, maybe the US will do something intelligent and just issue Glock 17's, like they should have done at least 20 years ago.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#432

Post by dang »

Found one thread from a year ago. Others?

Sig Sauer guns hanging on soldiers' hips may be firing without trigger pull - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41087518 - July 2024 (37 comments)

Sig Sauer P320, a popular handgun with police, is firing on its own - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530330 - April 2023 (31 comments)

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#433

Post by gosub100 »

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #422
gosub100 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they don't "go home" in a body bag. they go to the morgue, and to a funeral home, to a grave or an urn. You know about as much about guns as you do about deaths. You are only posting emotionally loaded responses, not actually thinking about a word you say.

That you’ve resorted to quibbling about the literal meaning of a common piece of figurative speech is pretty funny. It also implies you have nothing of substance to actually say on the topic. Instead, you’ve chosen ad-hominem.

you don't even understand the meaning behind your words. you are just parroting phrases about a topic because your tribe said so. they tell you how to think and you just obey, its literally the definition of a religion. a belief without proof.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#434

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #102
darkteflon wrote: post #53

Lots of informative comments in the thread about how carrying with a chambered round reduces the time and complexity to getting a shot off. I have limited knowledge of guns. I understood that they had a physical safety switch that had to be manipulated before the firearm could be used. Is that the case? If so, is the safety left off when people are carrying with a round chambered? Or have I misunderstood the purpose…

> Lots of informative comments in the thread about how carrying with a chambered round reduces the time and complexity to getting a shot off. This information should be kept in mind whenever anyone, especially a gun advocate, expresses dismay at the frequency of police shootings in America. America is so awash in guns, and people willing to use them, that for the average cop it is better to shoot first and ask questi…

> cops are simultaneously supposed to take the time to evaluate the threat to their safety

Everybody else is supposed to do this. Cops can avoid this and suffer no liability or criminal charges.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#435

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #380
TheFreim wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We’ve just been informed that in threatening situations there is no time to chamber a round, but cops are simultaneously supposed to take the time to evaluate the threat to their safety. I think you have misunderstood the order of operations in a violent encounter. The issue of chambering a round is in light of the fact that you have already identified an immediate violent threat and you need to end that threat. Th…

These arbitrary distinctions are in your mind. The real world is messy, and there is an algorithmic fallacy at the core of your argument. You've carefully laid out why carrying a chambered weapon is critical for minimizing the reaction time to a perceived threat. So you've explained why a suspect has his gun chambered. It's anyone's guess when that suspect decides he has "identified an immediate violent threat" in th…

> the cop, by definition, must identify and respond faster than the suspect pulling out his chambered weapon

You are correct about what the cop must do here, assuming the suspect pulled a weapon. If that didn't happen, then the cop doesn't necessarily need to do that.

> That doesn't work well for the cop

That is entirely possible (though rare) for a cop. Part of the trade-off of them getting virtually unlimited power to protect others is that potentially saving other people's lives outweighs potentially saving their own lives.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#436

Post by NaOH »

dang wrote: post #432

Found one thread from a year ago. Others? Sig Sauer guns hanging on soldiers' hips may be firing without trigger pull - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41087518 - July 2024 (37 comments) Sig Sauer P320, a popular handgun with police, is firing on its own - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530330 - April 2023 (31 comments)

Sig Sauer P320, a popular handgun with police, is firing on its own - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530330 - April 2023 (31 comments)

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#437

Post by dang »

NaOH wrote: post #436
dang wrote: post #432

Found one thread from a year ago. Others? Sig Sauer guns hanging on soldiers' hips may be firing without trigger pull - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41087518 - July 2024 (37 comments) Sig Sauer P320, a popular handgun with police, is firing on its own - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530330 - April 2023 (31 comments)

Sig Sauer P320, a popular handgun with police, is firing on its own - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530330 - April 2023 (31 comments)

Added above. Thanks!

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#438

Post by Khaine »

Khaine wrote: post #129

Ian from Forgotten Weapons posted an interesting video on this a while back: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QusWrho19zE And then a more recent follow up https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iWVs2uD1XY

He just did another follow-up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjEhgXAALL8&t=802s

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#439

Post by Alupis »

lenerdenator wrote: post #429
Alupis wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cocked & Locked" is usually how people refer to this - and it is easy to screw up. Under stress, people's fine motor skills vanish, sometimes resulting in the safety not being disengaged as you draw from the holster. Additionally, it can be accidentally flipped off during handling. Modern firearms have multiple internal safeties to prevent accidental discharges (unless you're Sig apparently).

It depends. If for some reason you're open carrying in a holster (like perhaps a police officer or soldier would be), and someone tries to get your weapon off of you and succeeds, a manual safety could save your life. They probably won't realize that the safety is on, and when they point the weapon at you and pull the trigger, nothing will happen, giving you a chance to escape or fight back. Without that manual safet…

I assume, based on your writing, that you have very little or perhaps no firearms training, particularly with duty carry and concealed carry.

> and someone tries to get your weapon off of you and succeeds, a manual safety could save your life.

This is something straight out of a movie...

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#440

Post by millzlane »

pxeger1 wrote: post #355
millzlane wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had one since before the military adopted it. I've been carrying it for years daily. It has never once went off on its own. I run with it, jump with it, have carried it in a small cross body bag. It has never just fired by itself. I have over 5k rounds through it. The only time my gun has went off was when I pulled the trigger. Has your gun ever went off without pulling the trigger? Most of the videos I see on Y…

I think it's crazy to use anecdotal evidence to decide to continue to use a gun with a small chance of accidental discharge.

Dont all guns have a small chance of accidental discharge? Improper handling and ignoring the firearm safety rules is not something I regularly do.
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