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GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

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Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#431

Post by pmyteh »

eru wrote: post #399
int_19h wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these things really boost life expectancy that much, this sounds like a textbook case for eminent domain.

I'm no fan of the patent system, but "patent system promises spoils for coming up with great new drug, companies comes up with great new drug, companies gets spoils" is exactly how it's supposed to work. Yes, it's sucks that you have to pay, but that's how you incentives getting the wonder drugs invented in the first place. (I have my own take on this, but if anything this is a 'textbook case' in favour of the patent…

Depending on how transformative the effects are (and the price drop possible upon genericisation) then there could be a compulsory licensing trade to do here.

The drug companies are presumably pricing optimally for profit (but not for maximum public benefit, for which the optimum price is ~0). You could calculate the net present value of the drug companies' total profits attributable to the patent, add on 10% as a bonus, and pay them off. If the welfare gains of having cheap drugs are genuinely greater than the value of the patent to the holder, this would be win/win.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#432

Post by FergusArgyll »

refulgentis wrote: post #112
linsomniac wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a miracle drug powerful enough to robustly lower people's all cause mortality Did I misread the article, my TL;DR of the article is that GLP-1 reduce the indicators or mortality without modifying the actual mortality (because most users return to normal indicators within about 2 years).

Subtly different: you read "most...return to normal...within 2 years", it says "When someone stops the medication , they'll [return to baseline]" Then from there, I click through the 65% #, assuming they have a good study on 65% of people stop after a year. Nah, they don't. It's super complex but tl;dr: specific cohort, and somehow the # getting on it in year 2 is higher than the # of people who quit in year 1. I hav…

The slippage part of the article is definitely bogus. The origin of the graph [0] attributes it to Accelerated Underwriting programs.

[0] https://www.swissre.com/reinsurance/life-and-health/l-h-risk...

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#433

Post by cameronh90 »

cm2187 wrote: post #128
romaaeterna wrote: post #16

The problem (not new with GLP-1s) is that people lose weight, get life insurance, and then regain. The biggest part of that equation is regain part. Most people quit GLP-1s because of costs. Let's fix that.

I don't know, I tend to notice the effect wears off over time. Not sure it's a good idea to consume it permanently. Perhaps a better use would be for short periods to course correct.

I have found the same thing, but my experience (YMMV; not recommended that you take my advice!) is that a one week break almost entirely resets it.

I now take a one week break every few months and have not noticed any decline in effects over time.

My suggestion would be to find an endocrinologist that specialises in obesity and these weight loss drugs. They will have dealt with patients who have experienced tolerance and have developed ways to work around it from real life experience. Obviously well-studied protocols with evidence would be preferable, but with how new these drugs are there hasn't been long enough to collect it yet.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#434

Post by wonderwonder »

sroussey wrote: post #221
randallsquared wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who is mildly needle-phobic, I'll agree it's no big deal, but you definitely can feel it, and if you hit a blood vessel by accident, there's a (mostly painless) bump and 2-3 week bruise at the injection site, which might be a major issue for some.

Be sure to pull back on the plunger and ensure there the needle is not in a blood vessel (pulling back will draw blood into the thing and you will see). You do not want the drug meant to subcutaneous to go into the blood steam. This is true for GPL-1s (all peptides for that matter), as well as insulin, and definitely mRNA vaccines.

Not sure why you are being downvoted. Some of the people using the brand name medication have some sort of auto-pen style injection but anyone using generics simply injects with an insulin pin. I always just pull back on the plunger (aspirate) before injecting. I currently take 18 shots a week (I'm very pro better living through chemistry) and do this every time. No issues.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#435

Post by fhdkweig »

PeterStuer wrote: post #377
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #23

So... There's a miracle drug powerful enough to robustly lower people's all cause mortality, but since health insurance and life insurance are industries with vastly different time preferences, this is not a good thing for the life insurers because people just keep getting off the magic longevity drug and screwing up their predictions. Because, admittedly, it kind of sucks in the moment to be on. And I'm guessing jus…

Pharmaceuticals generally do not drop in price while they are under patent. They will lobby like crazy to get on the approved 3rd party payment schemes though as that makes it "affordable" to more as then everybody pays regardless of wether you use or not. And a treatement that you have to continue forever or fall back? Pure gold! Insurers certaily don't mind you living longer. More payments, less payouts. They just…

> Insurers certaily don't mind you living longer. More payments, less payouts.

There are times when this is a problem, but even then it isn't the insurance companies that are complaining. There was a big "problem" during the beginning of the AIDS epidemic. For reasons I don't quite understand, the holder of the policy (the insured) can sell their policy to a random third party. The seller sells because they need immediate cash for end of life hospice treatment. The buyer buys because they know this person is about to die and they are going to get a cash payout of more than they paid for. This was a guaranteed payout because there was no treatment. This was a rare example of an investment with zero risk and high return. If you got the virus, you were going to be dead in a few months. This is a win-win for both the deceased and the new buyer, and it is neutral for the life insurance company because either way they have to pay the same amount to someone at the time of death.

The arrival of AZT cocktails threw a monkey wrench into the whole plan because suddenly a guaranteed death is no longer guaranteed and it leads to an ethical quandary because the "investor" doesn't get a return for their "investment" unless that person dies, and now they are literally wishing death on someone. (see also: There is no such thing as a risk free investment.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/10/viatical-... "The Gay Men Who Have Lived for Years With Someone Waiting on Their Death"

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#436

Post by wonderwonder »

_cenw wrote: post #406
sroussey wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be sure to pull back on the plunger and ensure there the needle is not in a blood vessel (pulling back will draw blood into the thing and you will see). You do not want the drug meant to subcutaneous to go into the blood steam. This is true for GPL-1s (all peptides for that matter), as well as insulin, and definitely mRNA vaccines.

Absolutely do not do this.

This is incorrect, always do this. Its called aspiration and it ensures you are not in a vein or artery.

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#437

Post by gibagger »

jtrn wrote: post #204

Clinical psychologist here in Norway, and just my subjective experience: People stop GLP1 agonists for the following reasons, in descending order: - They want to enjoy eating again. - Medications are a hassle. - Worry about long-term effects, even if there is no alarming evidence for now. - Price (we are a spoiled/rich country). - Other (like hating needles, feeling bad for taking medications that others need more, b…

Having ADHD myself, and a bunch of friends who also have it, I have noticed that the people with this condition rarely have a healthy relationship with food. There is either a tendency to overeat indulgent foods, or a tendency to not think about food that much.

I have also heard about people with ADHD being on GLP1 agonists that it does a lot for their reward seeking behavior and impulse control.

This makes me wonder two things:

- Whether at some point these molecules will also start being used for ADHD and addiction treatment in general. I think they hold a lot of promise for issues rooted in the reward system.

- Whether a sizable portion of people who struggle with their weight have co-morbid ADHD which creates or worsens their overeating issues.

Have you noticed anything along these lines in your practice?

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#438

Post by malfist »

solumunus wrote: post #366
Auracle wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. I’m at a healthy weight but I’m taking retatrutide for IBS and it’s working wonders. Very low dose, though. I originally tried it with semaglutide before the weight loss craze kicked off and the first few days of the week were worse and the latter half of the week was better, so that didn’t make sense for me to stay on.

With all of these long acting GLP's you will get a much smoother experience dosing them 2-3 times/week.

Maybe in the first few weeks, but their half-life is 7 days. You're not doing much besides making a hassle for yourself if your doing that after the first couple of weeks

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#439

Post by malfist »

wincy wrote: post #342
gregw134 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unnoticable meaning doesn't have any effect at all, or just no bad side effects?

I’ve been on 15mg (the highest dose) of Zepbound for the past six months. As of right this second I’ve lost 74 pounds since September 2024 when I switched to Zepbound after having a terrible experience with Ozempic/Wegovy and gaining from 260-308. I notice no ill effects, I just had my three month checkup with the doctor and he thinks I’m good on maintenance mode at max dose, I’ve still got about 34 pounds as my tota…

I'm sorry to hear about your wife's issues with it. My experience was completely the opposite. Since glp-1s slow gastric emptying they've completely ameliorated my IBS-D. It's been marvelous

Re: GLP-1s are breaking life insurance

#440

Post by potamic »

brap wrote: post #243

Just want to share my own experience since were doing it: Took Wegovy (Semaglutide) for about 6 months. Barely lost any weight, would occasionally get nauseous. Then the doc switched me to Mounjaro (Tirzepatide) + Phentermine, and holy shit, I just don’t feel like eating, almost ever. Lost 20kg in 6 months, which is all I needed to lose, never had any side effects. None. I did feel a little weird/buzzed the first tim…

Did you lose any muscle mass?
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