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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#431

Post by a_c »

BanterTrouble wrote: post #382

I work on my own cars now (as a hobby really) and one of the reasons the new cars are so expensive is they are much more complicated. A lot of this seems to be over-engineering IMO. This is alluded to in the article, but not explicitly stated. The cars I work on are from the early 90s and everything is very simple to understand. e.g. Electronics are normally simple circuits that aren't much more complicated than what…

Any recommendation how to start learning repairing a car? I have absolutely zero experience. A friend of mine said just learn to change a tyre first and I have been procrastinating since.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#432

Post by alerighi »

BanterTrouble wrote: post #382

I work on my own cars now (as a hobby really) and one of the reasons the new cars are so expensive is they are much more complicated. A lot of this seems to be over-engineering IMO. This is alluded to in the article, but not explicitly stated. The cars I work on are from the early 90s and everything is very simple to understand. e.g. Electronics are normally simple circuits that aren't much more complicated than what…

Yes, if they would make a basic car like in the past I would buy it. Everyone has to sell you too much, I want a simple car, I don't want either the stereo, I will add my own later (I can put it one that is better than the factory one for a cheaper price, but in a modern car replacing the stereo is almost impossible). There are a ton of useless sensors, the sensor that tells you if you have a flat tire (I think I can notice myself), the emergency call button (while everyone has a mobile phone these days), automatic regulating seats (pulling a lever is too much difficult), dual zone clima control (it's the same space in the same car, why I would want to set 2 different temperatures?), etc.

And in all this useless things that they put in a car, they no longer provide you with a spare tire, just an useless repair kit...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#433

Post by Orygin »

potato3732842 wrote: post #425
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

What a counterproductive comment in a world where the average SUV is something a lot closer in qualities to a traditional car than a traditional SUV. Ford's linup is a great example how you people harping on SUVs actively detract from the discussion. What you call the Flex, the Ecosport and the C-max doesn't really matter. They're obviously by virtue of their attributes much closer to a "car" than they are to a tradi…

Do you consider a Ford Flex to not be a SUV ? Thing's huge and most other example you provided are either clearly SUV or are bigger than they need to be to be a "normal" car.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#434

Post by potato3732842 »

cornholio wrote: post #410
amelius wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, if you kill someone in a traffic accident, you feel shit the rest of your life.

The main point here is that it sounds a lot like a zero sum game, people are struggling to catch a bigger share of a limited "safety" pie while manufacturers instigating the mass war are watching their profits increase. It's not clear at all to me how a crash involving two SUVs is much safer than, say, a 2 bike crash, and in fact there is a particular type of accident (front-overs of children) than trucks are strongl…

Except they're not though. Buyers are juggling many more criteria and safety is only a "nice to have" after fitness for purpose is achieved. Like no amount of internet fanboys screeching about Volvo's safety record will make someone who wants a roadster buy one over a Miata.

While I'm sure there is some amount of the affect you're describing the lion's share of it is likely CAFE rules favoring larger footprint vehicles effectively discounting SUVs causing them to be a better bang for your buck.

>It's not clear at all to me how a crash involving two SUVs is much safer than,

It is by the simple physics of having more distance to dissipate force over and less distance between the occupants and stuff in the cabin.

> This all points towards a runaway tragedy of the commons that can be solved by limiting vehicle mass.

Which will never happen because the same exact upper middle class demographics that screech all over the internet about safety are the exact same people who would see their buying choices degrade as a result of such.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#435

Post by cpursley »

blitzar wrote: post #365
leansensei wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the VAG marketing strategy. Share most parts, have the customer pay for the brand.

Wait till you hear about the parts on a lamborghini

What’s funny is the VW parts used in Lambos are actually an improvement over what they used to be.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#436

Post by alerighi »

b00ty4breakfast wrote: post #275
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My reptilian-brain logic prevents me from even considering getting a loan for car. Houses increase in value, therefore it makes a certain amount of sense to get a loan / mortgage for the purchase of a house (but mainly because no-one - in the world in which I live - can afford to buy one cash). Cars decrease in value, very quickly. Getting a loan for a car is throwing more money away than buying a car in the first pl…

It's not merely an issue of obtaining materially desirable consumer goods though; lots of folks get car loans because they can't afford to buy a car, even a cheap car, without one. So it's either, don't get a car and give up a lot of opportunities or hope you live in a place with decent public transit (which is not a given in many places in the US)

You can always get an used car for practically any amount of money. A lot of time an used car is even more reliable than a new shiny car full of useless electronic components.

To me buying new cars is just throwing away money, simply because at the moment you brought the car out from the dealer the car just is worth 3/4 of the price you payed it, and when you have to resell it in 10 years it is worth almost nothing.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#437

Post by klabb3 »

cpursley wrote: post #403
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that affordable European models are disappearing. The average mid-range offering from, say, Volkswagen, has become quite surprisingly expensive. But this is why Chinese cars are taking over in Europe. Half the new cars I see are from Geely, BYD, Chery, etc. These average about 20,000-25,000 EUR new. My own opinion, having looked into the matter a bit, is that you'd have to be insane to buy a Volkswagen or B…

I’d actually argue that it’s not the cost of Chinese cars but their actual offerings. Compared to the state of Chinese cars a decade ago their current product products are really interesting and offer features that European, American and other Asian models don’t. There’s a great channel called wheels boy on YouTube that’s worth checking out.

I know very little about cars but it seems to be on parity with the rest of the market. The days of Chinesium are over. Or rather, you’re seeing very similar quality no matter which country the product was ”designed” in, as they like to put it. All of the old quality consumer brands have cheaped out and are same or worse than no-name brands on Amazon. I just bought a Miele vacuum that’s ”designed in Germany”. Very flimsy build quality.

So why not skip the middleman and go directly to the source? The only annoyance for me is the ridiculous white labeling. Most no-name brands are seemingly coming from the same factories / same designs, so it’s often impossible to find quality reviews. Probably partly Bezos fault because Amazons review system are less trustworthy than a used car dealership. So I’d rather pay more for known flaws than the hit-or-miss gamble of no-name brands with fake reviews. I hope Chinese merchants catch up, because they’re losing customers for no particularly good reason. I just want the reviews, warts and all.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#438

Post by cpursley »

Amezarak wrote: post #383
oreilles wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The poorest American state, Mississippi, is richer per-capita than most European countries, including France. The state, maybe. The missisipian, not so much - considering their Human Development Index is right in between that of Hungary and Bulgaria, at the very bottom of the EU. How great is it to be able to buy expansive cars if you can't get access to education, healthcare, retirement, and will find yourself in…

Mississippi, like all US states, has free K12 education. It also offers free college education at public universities to anyone who scores well on college admittance tests. (In many countries, people can't access college at all if they didn't perform academically.) About 25% of Mississippians are on free government healthcare (Medicaid/CHIP). About 21% are on very-cheap government healthcare (Medicare.) Additionally,…

HN folks get their kicks from insulting the southern US states. I blame stereotypes perpetuated by Hollywood.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#439

Post by cpursley »

piltdownman wrote: post #367
Dig1t wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t your argument basically saying that people choose to buy larger cars when the government doesn’t step in and penalize people for doing so? European regulators basically just forcing people to buy smaller cars is what that sounds like. Also Europeans make less money, pay more taxes, and have less access to credit, so they can’t afford more expensive cars like many Americans. Hence the market catering more to peo…

Ah this old Chestnut whereby agitators use the comparable GDPs of Bavaria and Mississippi as a KPI indicating Europe's lack of economic prowess. In fact, it's just a scathing indictment of wealth inequality in Mississippi where life expectancy is 10 years less and infant mortality 400% higher than in Bavaria, despite their similar GDPs. For better or worse the EU is run as a Society whereby the US is run as an Econom…

It’s more culture than anything. Germany is absolutely run like an economy btw.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#440

Post by alerighi »

tshaddox wrote: post #333
lmm wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Houses do not increase in value. They do, by a lot, if they're in desirable cities. Probably what's really increasing in value is the grandfathered permission to have built a house, but there's no way to separate that from the house.

Every part of the house depreciates without maintenance. At some point the house will depreciate and the lot will be worth less than it would be if the house was already demolished.

Maybe houses made out of paper that you have in the US would, since just after 100 years they have to be demolished and built again. But houses made of concrete, that we have in Europe, just increase in value.

Yes, maybe you have to renovate the interiors, such as new floors, new electrical/hydraulic, new heating system, etc., but that is usually a small expense in contrast with the price of building an house from scratch.

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