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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#431

Post by KennyBlanken »

eastbound wrote: post #393
vFunct wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> In any case, Israel doesn't even have the right to exist It does: UN resolution, 1967. That you do not recognize an entire state to exist is an admission to preparing a genocide. The fact that 4 countries around Israel are preparing genocide justifies Israel’s measures are reasonable to maintain peace. What is reasonable? Well it’s not like Gaza didn’t start the shooting with 7000 rockets pre-October festival (I wa…

Would that be the same UN that Israel (and the US, to a large degree) refuses to recognize the authority of? Can't have your cake and eat it too, friend.

> What is reasonable?

Not instituting so many decrees ("militaty orders") that even the military authority responsible for 'ruling' the area can't produce an accurate or complete list of all of said decrees. Decrees which, I might add, forbid planting flowers, raising a flag, operating a farm tractor, going to school, or making a bank account withdrawal without the permission of the Israeli military: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Military_Order

Let that sink in: if you're a Palestianian you can't go to the bank and take out your own money without permission of the Israeli military.

Another military order allows the Israeli military to seize your business if you don't open during regular business hours.

Those decrees also allow Jews to "buy" (seize) land from Palestinians who refuse to sell to them, merely by asserting "power of attorney"

Not having snipers executing children. Not conducting missile and gun attacks on ambulances and independent worldwide-recognized medical aid organizations, and then attacking rescuers who show up to render aid. Not slaughtering an entire hospital's worth of patients and burying them in mass graves. Not slaughtering people lined up to get food aid. Not purposefully starving millions of people.

Not using a black-box AI to decide who is a "terrorist" and then blowing up their entire house, thus killing not only the supposed terrorist, but the entire family, or possibly the neighbor - because a "smart" bomb would be too expensive.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#433

Post by ethbr1 »

jxjnskkzxxhx wrote: post #413
ethbr1 wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, Israel's government would be less theocratic-conservative if it weren't so hard to form governing coalitions in the Knesset. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_twent... After moderate partners abandoned Netanyahu, his only source of support was more right-wing partners, which steadily pushed government policy to the ultra-right.

It's not ironic at all, it's democracy working as intended. It might superficially appear ironic because us in the west confuse being a democracy with being moderate. But that's not the case if a large fraction of your population are religious fundamentalists, which goes to my point. In Israel, the problem isn't just the government, it's also the culture of the majority of the population.

Considering ~50% of the Knesset is in opposition, I don't think it's proof that a politically large fraction of Israeli society is religiously fundamentalist.

It's non-negligible, but the reasons ultra-right parties like Otzma Yehudit [0] have a voice in politics has more to do with election calculus by Netanyahu.

The ideal 2+ party parliamentary system seems to be >2 but Below that, you get bad outcomes (US). Above that, you get bad outcomes (Israel, India).

Somewhere in the middle, it forces the right amount of coerced cooperation... most of the time (Germany).

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#434

Post by dang »

eastbound wrote: post #368
dang wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please make your substantive points thoughtfully, without snark or flamebait? It's not hard if you choose to, and the site guidelines ask people to do so, regardless of how charged or divisive the topic is. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Ok. The parent is the same kind of rhetorical question, whose counter-argument is so evident that it shouldn’t have existed, and it’s disappointing that one side gets the right of way on HN and the other is downvoted, one camp is making use of flaws in your rules to win without merit, aka bullying. But yes. I’ll speak without snarkiness.

Yes, the parent was the same kind of question; in fact I almost included that observation in my reply to you. However, it's all a matter of degree, and your comment was significantly worse in the degree of snark and flamebait that you were posting. That's why I replied to you and not the other comment. It had nothing to do with which side either of you are on, although I understand how it ends up feeling that way. (I've posted quite a bit about that elsewhere in this thread, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44403947.)

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#435

Post by stormfather »

yoavm wrote: post #359
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You definitely can kill 2.1 million people by bombing them. It's actually way easier than doing it with a gun Only if you have enough bombs, which they need to constantly purchase from the US using aid money given to them by the US. They don't have the stockpiles to eradicate without using their (not so) secret nukes. If they were to do that, there'd be a lot worse follow on effects for Israel. If they simply trick…

Genuinely wondering what terrible effects would there be for Israel if they used nukes? Not morally, internationally. IMO it's perhaps one of the few conflicts in the world where one side could theoretically use nuclear weapons and essentially no one will shoot back. "Trickle the deaths over time" doesn't make any sense - there are probably more births in Gaza than deaths now, and that's not including the general Pal…

The point is to colonize Gaza, they won't irradiate it first.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#436

Post by klipt »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #351
xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

> I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). I understand that you are talking about the recent era, but I wonder if you could speak to the history of the creation of Israel, and the German perception of that. Is there any discussion about the European role in the creation of Israel? After the end of the war, it isn’t as if the…

[flagged]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#437

Post by Buttons840 »

It's worth comparing these reports to the Flour Massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_Massacre) that occurred over a year ago.

I'd also suggest this (impassioned) video about the event: https://youtu.be/sCW-ARvywto?t=5020

Compare this reporting from a year ago with the Wikipedia page now. How has this reporting from a year ago held up?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#438

Post by avoutos »

hedora wrote: post #315
cladopa wrote: post #205

[flagged]

This article from the BBC corroprates the claims in the parent article, and also talks about why there are so many civilian casualties at these food distribution centers: https://www.npr.org/2025/06/28/nx-s1-5449587/israel-gaza-haa... The most obvious problems are that the food distribution centers are placed deep inside military red zones (which is not common practice), and that Israeli soldiers have been ordered to…

The article you link from NPR seems to mostly cite the Haaretz article. The only possible corroboration are the claims from Adil Husain, but I am hesitant to take his words as corroboration.

The Haaretz article states it is unclear how many died from IDF fire vs the Abu Shabab group. Husain was not at the aid site and so can't state how they were wounded.

It is also the case that doctors without borders is far from a non-partisan group and has harbored terrorists in the past (e.g. https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-slain-gazan-named-as-docto...)

If the soldiers truly fired on those who were only running away, not advancing, this should be investigated and charged as a war crime. However, at this point the evidence is not clear aside from a handful of anonymous sources from a single press release.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#439

Post by sokoloff »

avip wrote: post #312
LightBug1 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is there a way for IDF to fight Hamas without "inflict war crimes, or terrorism on civilians" though? How would that work in practical terms?

When Hamas uses hospitals for military purposes (or any purpose "harmful to their enemy" [other than solely medical care of injured Hamas combatants]), those hospitals lose their protected status otherwise provided by the Geneva Convention.

I don't like the prospect of hospitals being attacked, but if Hamas houses combatants or arms inside a hospital, attacking Hamas therein does not appear to be a war crime, provided Israel has issued a warning and allowed a reasonable time for Hamas to vacate the hospital.

The Geneva Convention does not provide "One Weird Trick to Avoid Combatants Being Attacked"

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