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AGI is Mathematically Impossible 2: When Entropy Returns

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Re: AGI is Mathematically Impossible 2: When Entropy Returns

#431
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counting letters is such a dull test. LLMs generally have a hard time with this question because letters are tokenized before they receive them, and they have to go through an involved reasoning process to figure it out. It's like asking a color blind person what color the street light is, and declaring him unintelligent because he sometimes gets the answer wrong.

I mean, if you don’t want to include tests that LLMs are, by definition, bad at, why don’t we do the same thing for humans?

Because this is a gotcha test and they are trained on a different tokenized transform of the data that makes it hard. As a system they can output it as a string and have an interpreter, as part of the system, count the letters. So no real meaningful deficiency except they maybe don't waste system prompt space to tell it to do that, as a choice.

Re: AGI is Mathematically Impossible 2: When Entropy Returns

#432
post #403
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly possible in humans - the statement in the parent I was replying to. I would indeed definitely like to see proof - mathematical or applied - of in silico intelligence

Do you expect silicon to be less capable of the necessary computation than cells?

At best, I'm asking for a clear scientific definition of intelligence. At worst I'm questioning its very existence.

Re: AGI is Mathematically Impossible 2: When Entropy Returns

#433
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are not physical machines? Please explain.

depends what you mean by "machine".

There are inputs and outputs. The human body can be analyzed systematically (not necessarily easily). There’s no “magic”.

Re: AGI is Mathematically Impossible 2: When Entropy Returns

#434
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you expect silicon to be less capable of the necessary computation than cells?

At best, I'm asking for a clear scientific definition of intelligence. At worst I'm questioning its very existence .

If you haven't yet encountered it, check out Michael Levin's lab and work. Among other things, they are trying to figure out what "basal cognition" is; the idea being that even if we can't point to some dividing line in the end, we'll have a better understanding of what cognition is and where it shows up. And it shows up surprisingly far down!

The definition of "intelligence" that he works with comes from William James: the ability to achieve the same goal by different means. It's a useful definition, given the remarkable stuff coming out of his lab.

Re: AGI is Mathematically Impossible 2: When Entropy Returns

#435
post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truthfully, few people know that right now! They're backfeeding what it's "learning" along the way - whether it's in a smart fashion, we don't know yet.

It’s the whole “MCP” moto right? Basically keep re-feeding in each subsequent prompts the additional requested context?

(I've a recently acquired strong opinion on MCP, beware)

MCP seems to be the idea to expose literally any data source to AI agents as context. E.g, in work/business context: a database, source code, a kanban board; in private context: your photo library, notes, etc. This is good and makes sense.

As a technical "standard" or "protocol" (as it claims to be), it's a total mess, read more here: https://modelcontextprotocol.io. Though I guess they are inventing it as they go.

Re: AGI is Mathematically Impossible 2: When Entropy Returns

#436
post #430
post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human minds are fairly free to believe untruths. At least to a certain extent: it's rather hard to _really_ believe things that contradict your lived experience. You can _say_ that you believe them, but you won't behave as if you believe them.

Yeah, that's fair, I phrased that part wrong. The problem with Boltzmann brains is that, by construction, they're going to have incorrect beliefs about almost everything . Like, imagine watching a TV tuned to a dead station and somehow the random background noise looked and sounded like someone telling you the history of the world, and it really was just random noise doing this — that level of being wrong about almos…

Yes, that makes sense.

Re: AGI is Mathematically Impossible 2: When Entropy Returns

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to waste my time clicking a second video link but if Gemini can be believed he said "we don't know exactly how they work" which somehow became "We don’t even know how LLMs work. " In your retelling, an exaggeration which rightfully led to pushback. Aside from that I don't know what conversation you think we are having.

Yeah let’s not talk at all. You’re wasting both your own time and my time by responding to me without clicking on my links and trying to understand what I say. Just leave. Don’t bother communicating with me again.

As I said your interpretation of the first link was implausible and I wasn't going to click on a second.
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