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Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

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Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#431

Post by edanm »

queenkjuul wrote: post #424
tim333 wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of arab Israelis not being attacked. They would probably attack people murdering them and taking hostages of any race.

They're just being denied access to public services, redlined out of neighborhoods, or exiled to the ever-shrinking West Bank. Not being bombed, sure. Not being attacked, no. Socially, politically, they are.

> or exiled to the ever-shrinking West Bank.

You're mixing two completely different things here.

Arab-Israelis (meaning Israeli citizens who are Arabs, which represents about 20% of the Israeli population) are not "exiled" to the WB, they don't live in the WB, they live in Israel, and are full citizens - no one can exile them anywhere.

There is some discrimination, sure, but in almost every respect they are equal citizens of Israel.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#432

Post by edanm »

queenkjuul wrote: post #368
edanm wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some Israeli officials who are extremists and talk that way, but they represent a right-wing extreme bloc of Israeli voters. These officials have a lot of power and influence right now for a variety of reasons. But this is by no means true of the majority of Israeli officials, nor of the public.

I'm sorry but the majority party in the Israeli government is unquestionably motivated by racism. I don't really care about the specific number of Israeli officials nationwide and their relative levels of personal racist views. The Israeli government is unabashedly engaged in a racially motivated genocide, and the officials carrying it out are in no way apologetic about their motivations. I never said anything about…

> I'm sorry but the majority party in the Israeli government is unquestionably motivated by racism. [...] The Israeli government is unabashedly engaged in a racially motivated genocide,

Let's put aside whether or not someone agrees with labeling it a genocide. I believe you're applying the lens of racism here that is imported from Western countries and doesn't really fit. I think you're actually flipping the causal arrows here - the war motivates the racism, not the racism motivating the war.

Palestinians are in many respects a different state that is at semi-war with Israel. The Gaza strip is ruled by Hamas which launched a war against Israel and is, by their own words, planning on continuing the war until Israel is destroyed.

Stopping Israel from being destroyed is the motivation in attacking them back, and a completely legit and understandable motivation at that. (Whether the way Israel is behaving is legitimate or not is a separate question!)

To make an obvious analogy - In WW2, the US was fighting Japan. There was also racism directed towards the Japanese (including literally putting Japanese citizens in camps!). But that doesn't mean the US's war against Japan was motivated by racism - quite the opposite. The racism was motivated by the war, which was motivated by Japan's desire to grow their empire.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#433

Post by tim333 »

queenkjuul wrote: post #400
tim333 wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are attacking Hamas who are dedicated in their charter to destroying Israel as a state. Hamas is not a race.

Go read some of the things Israeli officials actually say about Palestinians. Go learn about what Israel is doing in the non-Hamas-controlled West Bank. Sorry, you're just literally ignorant here. Likud and their ilk do not hide their true feelings, American media just doesn't like to bring it up

>you're just literally ignorant here

I may be less ignorant than you think - I've been to Israel four times and to Jordan and recently to Dahab in Egypt fairly close to Gaza. Lots of racial groups don't like each other but that's not really the issue here. Jordan won't have the Palestinians because when they let them in some of them tried to overthrow their government and Egypt are not keen because islamic terrorist groups, not actually Hamas but allied come over and machine gun tourists and try to overthrow their government. It's not because the arabs in those places are racist against arabs, it's that people don't like groups trying to kill and overthrow them. Similarly Gaza was reasonably peaceful until they October killings and kidnappings. Think of that in your own context - if some group came and started killing your people and trying to overthrow your government would you say that's hunky dory or try to do something about it?

I mention this not because I think the Israelis are good or anything but the kill some people and be surprised when they hit back strategy is not productive. If the palestinians want peace they should renounce that, release hostages and say we want peace. But most of the Palestinian demos I see are about "river to the sea" ie overthrow Israel, not asking for peace.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#434

Post by the_af »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #421
the_af wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pointed out an instance of bigotry done by jews An instance of bigotry supported by an admittedly large portion of Israel's population. Not by "the Jews". > History will tell you this is the norm. Irony is the norm in history, so it seems we actually agree.

You're now using scare quotes around phrases I never actually used. This is dishonest behaviour and I am done talking with you.

Suits me fine, since you're dishonest about what you wrote:

> Jewish people have no moral high ground here

and

> I pointed out an instance of bigotry done by jews

There you have it: written by you, about "the Jews" and "Jewish people". People are rightfully calling you out on this, and flagging you. You mentioned it, and now you're playing dumb, so there's truly nothing more to discuss.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#435

Post by the_af »

tim333 wrote: post #433
queenkjuul wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read some of the things Israeli officials actually say about Palestinians. Go learn about what Israel is doing in the non-Hamas-controlled West Bank. Sorry, you're just literally ignorant here. Likud and their ilk do not hide their true feelings, American media just doesn't like to bring it up

>you're just literally ignorant here I may be less ignorant than you think - I've been to Israel four times and to Jordan and recently to Dahab in Egypt fairly close to Gaza. Lots of racial groups don't like each other but that's not really the issue here. Jordan won't have the Palestinians because when they let them in some of them tried to overthrow their government and Egypt are not keen because islamic terrorist…

> Similarly Gaza was reasonably peaceful until they October killings and kidnappings

There's more history to Gaza and Israel's treatment of Gaza and Palestinians than the October killings.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#437

Post by throwaway29812 »

drewbeck wrote: post #71
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk is on the outs. And what if there is no grand conspiracy? We're extremely far from any of Yarvin's "plans" at any rate. Yarvin's most cherished plan was to create a shadow university called the "Antiversity" -- a sort of repository of all truths unbeholden to politics and fads. Is this a bad idea? Which other Yarvin ideas scare you so?

Some of the wealthiest people in the world follow his ideas, including people who have been in government or deeply involved in government, and people who want to use their wealth to increase their own power. Why are you not concerned?

[dead]

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#438

Post by LAC-Tech »

queenkjuul wrote: post #425
LAC-Tech wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that I've done that. The original assertion was that it would be somehow "ironic" for a jewish person to have ethnocentric/supremacist/nationalist views. I pointed out that it definitely existed in that group.

> Jewish people have no moral high ground here. If you weren't implicating Jewish people writ large, you shouldn't have brought up Jewish people writ large.

The whole germ of this discussion was about jewish people writ large - that it's somehow "ironic" for them to be bigoted, and not other groups.

Tellingly, the responses to this have revealed a lot of latent bigotry. If you're offended that someone said your ethnicity does not automatically have a moral high ground, then you're a supremacist. You believe inherently that your ethnicity IS more moral than others.

I consider my point well demonstrated. Irony indeed.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#439

Post by kiitos »

coldtea wrote: post #248
kiitos wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely deny that there are any interesting ideas in there. We've done this, it was called the dark ages and it sucked and we moved past it. Engaging with this pablum in any way is granting it attention and vigor it obviously doesn't deserve.

> We've done this, it was called the dark ages and it sucked and we moved past it. Well, the "dark ages" is now widely considered a misnomer, and that time is seen as an important era development-wise.

No, it is not widely considered to be a misnomer. What are you trying to communicate with this comment?

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#440

Post by queenkjuul »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #438
queenkjuul wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jewish people have no moral high ground here. If you weren't implicating Jewish people writ large, you shouldn't have brought up Jewish people writ large.

The whole germ of this discussion was about jewish people writ large - that it's somehow "ironic" for them to be bigoted, and not other groups. Tellingly, the responses to this have revealed a lot of latent bigotry. If you're offended that someone said your ethnicity does not automatically have a moral high ground, then you're a supremacist. You believe inherently that your ethnicity IS more moral than others. I cons…

Well good for you then. I don't find generalizing about ethnicities productive.
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