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The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

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Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#431

Post by r2_pilot »

em-bee wrote: post #406
r2_pilot wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>free will is one big reason why god would not reveal himself in a universal fashion. Much like how religion posits a soul, you are positing free will despise observing that rocks always fall in accordance with the laws of physics and we have yet to determine any normal way of altering the course of chemistry one jot or tiddle(in fact we build our edifices on these observations, so confident are we). You yourself sug…

i don't know how free will is supposed to affect the laws of physics or chemistry. free will is about the choices we can make. that doesn't imply there are no limits to our capacity. nor does having a choice to believe in god or not imply that humans can't experience god without disbelief. on the contrary. that's the whole point. i can believe that the universe is created by god, and that everything i experience is i…

Specifically, free will can't affect chemistry or physics, because what, to you, is free will, to me, is chemical reactions that lead to your body making movements. Since no known process is capable of altering these reactions, ergo you have no free will(defined as the ability to make choices outside of external interference, whatever that even means). Calvinism is relevant because they purport to believe in the same God you do, yet have wildly different and incompatible theories of mind that make no sense to you. As an outside observer all I can say is that either you or they are wrong, and it's likely you both are.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#432

Post by freedomben »

hinkley wrote: post #386
dfxm12 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever do get around to reading the new testament, you'll find that Jesus is obviously more of a collectivist than a capitalist. Jesus "radicalized" me. You can try and delay this realization by arguing over the minutiae of what exactly socialism is and if Jesus would agree with Marx on every little thing, but that, and also failing to practice what he preached doesn't change Jesus' obvious message that hoarding…

Throwing down moneylenders tables in the temple is pretty unambiguous. How many times did Jesus show violence or aggression? That’s the only one I can think of really. Though he did throw out some wicked burns a time or two.

> How many times did Jesus show violence or aggression? That’s the only one I can think of really.

I think you might be forgetting about the bulk of the Old Testament

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#433

Post by freedomben »

hinkley wrote: post #425
matwood wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not Christian in large part because I did. And it’s almost all batshit. Haha, same. I was forced to go to church and Sunday school as a kid, which I hated. But since I was there, I read large parts of the bible. This led me to asking a lot of questions, some of which caused me to be remove from Sunday school a few times. Eventually I was old enough to explain why I was an atheist and never went back.

I don’t talk about this often but I took seminary classes. Where they tried to explain away the incongruities. It mostly stuck until it didn’t and then the whole mess of it tore itself apart with tremendous violence. If I hadn’t had a friend who was into social justice at the time to hold onto like flotsam after a ship sinks I don’t know if I would be here today.

It is amazing how rapidly the whole thing shimmies apart once the first domino starts to fall. For me it was Theodicy, and the backbending required to explain whose "free will" is to blame for hurricanes, tsunamis, and other natural disasters that kill hordes of innocent people (including children) every year.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#434

Post by david_shi »

subjective/intersubjective binary event market resolution is one of the most fascinating areas of crypto research

uma whales currently have a lot of influence on voting results, but I can't imagine that this won't be addressed at some point

https://rekt.news/hedging-bets

https://app.truemarkets.org/en

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#435

Post by mullingitover »

Amezarak wrote: post #428
mullingitover wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clear that that proper practice for a wealthy person would be to immediately jettison the wealth. Matt 19:21 NIV: "Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” So if you're wealthy and poor people exist , you're in a state of sin. Christianity is an apocalyptic religion, you're to assume the world could en…

The story in Matthew 19:21 has exactly the same point and precedes this very parable. > But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. [Then follows the camel and the needle.] The rich man fails the test because he is unable to give up his wealth; his heart is not in the right place. He loves the world and he loves his riches more than he loves God. It is entirely poss…

> Another example is in Acts

It's almost as if the Bible has different authors with different audiences and different aims in their writing, all of whom had no idea or plan for their writing to be codified into a single text by third parties who in turn had their own audience and goals.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#436

Post by freedomben »

r2_pilot wrote: post #431
em-bee wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't know how free will is supposed to affect the laws of physics or chemistry. free will is about the choices we can make. that doesn't imply there are no limits to our capacity. nor does having a choice to believe in god or not imply that humans can't experience god without disbelief. on the contrary. that's the whole point. i can believe that the universe is created by god, and that everything i experience is i…

Specifically, free will can't affect chemistry or physics, because what, to you, is free will, to me, is chemical reactions that lead to your body making movements. Since no known process is capable of altering these reactions, ergo you have no free will(defined as the ability to make choices outside of external interference, whatever that even means). Calvinism is relevant because they purport to believe in the same…

Agreed, and to expand slightly, we do know that our brains are constructed on top of neurons, and neurons are way too big to be affected by quantum-level events. There's countless literature describing people who have had accidents or illnesses that damage parts of their brain and change personalities (typically without the patient being aware of any change and in most cases being in adamant denial about it), and we can now pinpoint quite precisely what many parts of the brain do. We even have AI that can now "read minds" to an extent based on measuring neural activity. The idea of "free will" is highly suspect given the deterministic nature of our brains. There are still some God of the Gaps arguments that try to save free will, but IMHO you have to really want to save it in order to accept many of those arguments. It's deeply uncomfortable to consider, but our brains are deterministic.

This is not my field at all so don't take my word for any of it, but I highly recommend people interested in this read or watch Robert Sapolsky's work. His books "Behave" and "Determined" are utterly fascinating and get very, very deep into this in a way that is challenging but understandable for a non-Neurologist.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#437

Post by [deleted] »

blendergeek wrote: post #21

This article fails to address that most true believers would not see any point to betting on the yes. If Christ returns this year, the world is done and there is no upside to having bet that he would. Temporal things (like prediction markets) will cease to be interesting when Christ returns. Given that, I highly doubt that the people betting yes actually believe that Christ will return this year.

[deleted]

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#438

Post by akomtu »

jihadjihad wrote: post #58

A relevant passage in the gospels is as follows [0]: > Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of…

There is a more detailed prophecy of these events:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Masih_ad-Dajjal

"The Dajjal will imitate the miracles performed by Jesus, such as healing the sick and raising the dead, the latter done with the aid of demons. He will deceive many "

As for the time of events, I find this the most compelling:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Year

Earth's polar axis slowly rotates, with a period of 26,000 years. This period is divided into 12 ages: the age of Aries, Pisces, Aquarius and so on. A lot of christian symbology revolves around sheep and fish. Symbolically speaking, 2000 years ago, Aries died to begin the age of Pisces. Similarly, in around 2150, Pisces will yield to Aquarius.

It's also interesting that the age of Aries is considered the last age of the 12, after which the next great cycle begins (see Pistis Sophia). Whether this has astronomical foundation is a question.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#439

Post by jajko »

freedomben wrote: post #427
DevKoala wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the cognitive dissonance true believers learn to live with?

Just my opinion, I think at least a portion of them have to learn to live with "faith" being the answer to some hard questions. You also don't have to look hard for doctrines that are contradictory. For example: was Jesus human or God? (and keep in mind that God is traditinally viewed as tri-omni, meaning omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent) Many times I've asked that I'm told "he was 100% human and also 100%…

Asking logical critical questions will not get you far with any hardcore believer, at least I havent met any, ever.

What you will get plenty of depends on personality - outright attack, run away in some form, or usual blanket statements with 0 actual meaning like "its faith", "you have to believe".

As if anything else mattered but a clean moral behavior. Made up rituals very specific to given sect, on different dates, some ignored, some have other meanings. You shouldn't take it all literally, but they often take it literally to absurd levels.

Yeah, I cant give much respect to believers or faith which cant handle a minute or two of critical thinking, and deeply ignore its own past and rather harsh moral failures. Mistakes not acknowledged and acted upon are mistakes waiting to happen again.

Re: The Polymarket users betting on when Jesus will return

#440

Post by conartist6 »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #63

We dont know the day or hour. Yet, the end won't come until the Gospel has reached all nations. Likely, people groups. https://biblehub.com/matthew/24-14.htm https://joshuaproject.net/ Jesus also warns that His message, the Gospel (GetHisWord.com), will be universally hated across the world by those who dont believe. The Devil will inspire people to censor it to prevent both people's sins being forgiven and godliness…

I would hate to see this conversation get off topic so... did you bet?
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