Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

yle.fi

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 465 posts

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#431

Post by pydry »

mazurnification wrote: post #386
pydry wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were fighting Japan at the time, were unable to fight a war on two fronts and Britain had at that point chosen to follow a strategy of appeasement towards the Nazis. And your idea is that they had zero reason to fear invasion from the west? Even though that is precisely what happened just a few years later?

First of all this were USSR-Japan skirmishes not war, second they did not have to worry about Japan as was shown by Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact of April 1941, third if they were worried about Japan then "spending" army on invasion of Poland, Finland, Baltics, Bessarabia were counter productive, fourthly at the time of Ribentrop Molotov pact Britain ceased following appeasement strategy as shown by declaring war t…

>First of all this were USSR-Japan skirmishes not war, second they did not have to worry about Japan as was shown by Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact of April 1941

...two years after Molotov Ribbentrop.

If they had nothing to worry about Japan it logically follows that they had nothing to worry about Hitler either as was shown by the Molotov Ribbentrop pact.

In 1939 the Soviet military was a disaster, also. It's difficult to overstate just how exposed they were.

>Furthermore historian believe that Stalin knew that confrontation w/ Germany is inevitable

They were right to be afraid.

>In summary - Soviets and Nazis were allies till 1941 -

In summary, out of fear which was entirely legitimate. Fun fact: the only difference between them and Finland is that Finland gets excused for allying to Hitler out of fear by its western allies.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#432

Post by ta1243 »

eqvinox wrote: post #412
ta1243 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So "closer to 10cm" then Clearly not "doable", without guage changing bogies.

The really annoying thing is that it's too close for "simple" dual gauge rails (e.g. 1435 + 1000); 1435 + 1524 is possible and in fact exists (e.g. the one single SE-FI railway bridge that exists is dual guage: https://openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=65.8273204537081... ), but AFAIK it's expensive because the mounts interfere and need to be quite custom.

That bridge is 4-rail, not 3-rail

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torne_River_Railway_Bridge#/me...

Even if you were to 4-rail every line, you'd potentially run into loading gauge issues (you would have to offset the current centre of the bogies, go too far one way and you collide with platforms, too far the other way and you collide with oncoming trains)

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#433

Post by oblio »

pydry wrote: post #428
oblio wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rest all belong to or tried to join a military bloc which helped rape Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan for no particular reason other than because the gang boss demanded it. Quick essay for 20 points, those countries all decided to join NATO BEFORE Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan. WHY did they decide to try to join NATO? Who were they running away from and why?

The promise to Ukraine was that they are going to be protected by their chosen gang rather than be cynically used to try and take down a rival gang. The lie was laid bare once they were actually attacked. Article 5 protections - the only reason they are fighting this war - came off the table as soon as it became clear that the rival gang wasn't going to be taken down. Quick essay for 30 points: write to a grieving mo…

Ukraine wasn't in NATO and NATO members Baltics have not been attacked, even though they're a lot smaller and more vulnerable

The Western alliance is doing some horrible things worldwide, but your point of view regarding Eastern Europe is horribly mistaken. I'm fairly sure you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're probably not from there. I'd basically classify you as a tankie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie

I'm doubly going to classify you as a tankie as you're dodging the question of WHO Eastern Europe was running from (and WHY).

Also another quick essay for 40 points: who has voluntarily joined Russian led alliances (except for Armenia, which is currently reconsidering its life choices).

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#434

Post by red_admiral »

reaperducer wrote: post #404
crote wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no ready-made gauge changing machines, though. Not exactly a big market for those.

There are no ready-made gauge changing machines, though. Not exactly a big market for those. So what? I'd there isn't a machine, you build one. Large industries like mining and shipping and the military don't just stop because they can't buy a needed item off the shelf because there isn't a market for it. They build stuff all the time. I worked in a factory for a few years, and can tell you that if industries followe…

Switzerland has some for narrow (meter) gauge to standard gauge. I think it's to make the Glacier Express run without changing train. Had a bit of teething problems at the start but seems to be working well now.

That's not a "change gauge for a 100-wagon freight train" scale operation, and it's not "off the shelf" tech, but we're fairly close I think?

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#435

Post by red_admiral »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #272
MyPasswordSucks wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passenger travel is easy mode. The economic consequences of disrupted freight dwarf anything you could imagine from disrupted passenger travel of equal duration. That's why the US has always strived to do a really, really good job with their freight rail system, and US freight is still to this day generally considered the best freight rail system in the world, even as passenger rail lags well behind. Remember that fr…

Any competent shipper facing a train issue will just put the load on semis instead for 3-10x the price. Freight rail mainly exists as an low cost bulk carrier of convenience these days. Ships outcompete rail for bulk goods along inland waterways, and semis outcompete rail for network volume, ease of delivery, and adaptability to constraints.

I was told a while ago "trains are great if you want to move a trainload of stuff, trucks are great if you want to move a few truckloads of stuff". I guess trains also need loading/unloading facilities and stations close to your origin and destination, and perhaps a hump yard somewhere.

Cargo ships beat everything hands down if there's a port close to your origin and destination, and lots of water in between.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#436

Post by panick21_ »

hedora wrote: post #282
PaulRobinson wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An impressive feat, that is unlikely unachievable on a modern train network. The tolerances are just a bit tighter, the risks and liabilities are higher, and the workforce just isn't "there" - this is from a time when rail was a huge money earner and could afford to employ a huge number of people. Today? Not so much, pretty much anywhere in the World.

In the US, rail tolerances seem to be getting looser over time, and derailments are still uncommon. I’d guess that overseas modern non-high speed trains could deal with it. The passengers might not put up with it though.

Derailments are incredibly common in the US.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#437

Post by eqvinox »

ta1243 wrote: post #432
eqvinox wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really annoying thing is that it's too close for "simple" dual gauge rails (e.g. 1435 + 1000); 1435 + 1524 is possible and in fact exists (e.g. the one single SE-FI railway bridge that exists is dual guage: https://openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=65.8273204537081... ), but AFAIK it's expensive because the mounts interfere and need to be quite custom.

That bridge is 4-rail, not 3-rail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torne_River_Railway_Bridge#/me... Even if you were to 4-rail every line, you'd potentially run into loading gauge issues (you would have to offset the current centre of the bogies, go too far one way and you collide with platforms, too far the other way and you collide with oncoming trains)

Bleh, but kinda confirms my point too. I do think there are some 3-rail setups in other border regions though? I should check… then again it doesn't matter that much if it's 3 or 4.

As for the loading gauge, yes, of course. On the plus side, this is Finland, most of the lines is in the middle of nowhere and single track even. Maybe the best option for them is to just build 1435 in parallel whereever possible, and just merge where not otherwise practical (bridges, tunnels, populated areas & stations). I don't even think it's that infeasible considering Finland's layout. I'd wager there are only a handful of specific locations that need expensive work.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#438

Post by firesteelrain »

lazide wrote: post #417
firesteelrain wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"'86, in the south? Let's not be racist and assume the labor was Chinese - surely it was 95% recently freed black slaves paid almost nothing + 'free' prison labor. (/s, a little)." It's not what you said

I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what I said, actually. [ https://www.train-museum.org/2019/02/18/black-railroad-jobs/ ] Which part do you think I didn’t?

I made a more nuanced and historically grounded point, whereas your post was a sarcastic oversimplification. So no — you didn't say what I said. I emphasized the diversity and complexity of postbellum labor in the South; you gave a glib summary that oversimplifies it as mostly “recently freed black slaves paid almost nothing + ‘free’ prison labor.”

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#439

Post by wkat4242 »

celticninja wrote: post #387
wkat4242 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transformers are not very hard to replace or make though. All they are is some copper wound around iron. It will just be some added frustration and annoyance for them but no gamechanger. If they start doing it a lot Russia will just build a bigger electrical workforce and more backstock. They have plenty of people and the authorianism to make them do whatever they want. It's just a pissing contest. Russia did lots of…

Do you mean stuxnet? That was a cyber attack, natanz was a blackout caused by a blast/explosion IIRC.

Natanz was the site of the facility targeted by stuxnet.

https://www.nti.org/education-center/facilities/natanz-enric...

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#440

Post by earnestinger »

nayuki wrote: post #336
sbuttgereit wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand.... "Unification to standard gauge on May 31 – June 1, 1886 [United States] In 1886, the southern railroads agreed to coordinate changing gauge on all their tracks. After considerable debate and planning, most of the southern rail network was converted from 5 ft (1,524 mm) gauge to 4 ft 9 in (1,448 mm) gauge, then the standard of the Pennsylvania Railroad, over two days beginning on Monday, May 31,…

> Now, the only broad-gauge rail tracks in the United States are on some city transit systems. One such oddball is the TTC subway/streetcar gauge of 1495 mm in Toronto, Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto-gauge_railways

Does it imply that, Toronto finally is one of United States cities with broad gauge rail tracks?
Post reply on HN