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Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

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Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#431

Post by andrewflnr »

atoav wrote: post #423
andrewflnr wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be careful. It wasn't really "vibes", especially not at the start. There was a very clear cut ("simplistic" would be too generous) formula that determined the tariffs. Granted, probably the tone of the "negotiations" since then has been vibe-influenced...

The formula is utterly nonsensical. Sorry, but I have first semester art students who apply more care when choosing electronic components for their first project after 8 hours of instructions. And art students are not exactly known to be math-heads. The first thing you'd do is to check for edge cases, like how the formula treats countries that you just extract wealth from like Lesotho. If you have 10 interns spending…

Yes, the formula is appallingly stupid. But it is a formula. If it was "vibes", do you think Trump would have anything to say about Lesotho at all? Or the Heard and McDonald islands? Maybe we're disagreeing on the term....

I just think we should be careful to use rigorously correct criticisms of the cheeto. There's still plenty to say.

Ed: thinking more, I think the best way it could still be vibes based is if they only evaluated the formula for China, said "looks good", and mass-applied it with no further thought.

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#432

Post by bee_rider »

conductr wrote: post #420
bee_rider wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can a business just say “no refunds, even if the device is completely non-functional.” At least (maybe it varies state by state) Massachusetts has an “implied warranty of merchantability,” the thing has to basically work at least for a little bit. I mean, if the bolt-holes don’t line up, they didn’t just sell you a bad , they sold you a random sheet of metal that is not .

This is kind of the argument I made to the manager in a Karenesque fashion. Why would I have even bought it if I knew it was defective? How would I have known without opening the box? Etc. I live in a state that is politically conservative and probably least likely to have similar protections but also ultimately I wasn’t going to have a legal battle over it. They lost me as a customer, well not even entirely, just fo…

Well, I can certainly appreciate not wanting to deal with the headache.

But, I wouldn’t characterize it as “karenesque” to expect your tools to do what they say on the box.

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#433

Post by wombat-man »

mrguyorama wrote: post #341
wombat-man wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if they still, genuinely, just don't understand how tariffs work and how they are charged. But if they're lying... why? to what end? People are going to notice when prices are jacked up or stores are empty.

If Fox News never tells them that increasing prices are Trump's fault, they will never turn on him. People need to stop treating his supporters as rational people just missing some information. It's a classic cult of personality. They ignore reality as Trump demands. There is no way out of this by insisting that they will naturally snap out of it. That's never been how cults of personality end.

I'm not talking about his supporters. I mean the people in the administration.

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#434

Post by wombat-man »

reverendsteveii wrote: post #275
wombat-man wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if they still, genuinely, just don't understand how tariffs work and how they are charged. But if they're lying... why? to what end? People are going to notice when prices are jacked up or stores are empty.

The point of the tariffs is rolling them back when the entity being punished does what Trump wants them to do. This was revealed in the initial stutterstep rollout of tariffs against Canada and Mexico. They both gave him political victories on the border, and in exchange the tariffs were delayed. Quit assuming he wants what he says he wants and start assuming he wants the obvious, easily-predictable consequences of h…

I guess I don't know what he's obviously trying to get out of China at the moment. It looks like what we're going to get is a product shortage stateside soon.

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#435

Post by atoav »

andrewflnr wrote: post #431
atoav wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The formula is utterly nonsensical. Sorry, but I have first semester art students who apply more care when choosing electronic components for their first project after 8 hours of instructions. And art students are not exactly known to be math-heads. The first thing you'd do is to check for edge cases, like how the formula treats countries that you just extract wealth from like Lesotho. If you have 10 interns spending…

Yes, the formula is appallingly stupid. But it is a formula. If it was "vibes", do you think Trump would have anything to say about Lesotho at all? Or the Heard and McDonald islands? Maybe we're disagreeing on the term.... I just think we should be careful to use rigorously correct criticisms of the cheeto. There's still plenty to say. Ed: thinking more, I think the best way it could still be vibes based is if they o…

Maybe we're arguing about words and definitions here, but with "vibes-based", what I meant isn't that there was no plan at all and everything was purely vibes, what I meant is that the plan they put into reality appears to have no internal logic that aligns with the stated goals.

The elastic constants in the divisor of that formula were 0.25 multiplied with 4, which obviously results in 1. And something divided by 1, well stays the same. So why the hell even have them? It does not appear anybody had any real basis for the why of that formula.

Your idea that they went with the result for China and applied formula without more checking sounds surprisingly plausible..

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#436

Post by otterley »

rayiner wrote: post #379
slibhb wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let's ban machines in factories while we're at it. Then Americans will have the honor of stitching clothing and standing at conveyer belts. On a less sarcastic note, pretty much zero mainstream economists believe that tariffs will bring back manufacturing to the US. There are economists who think the US should manufacture more. They talk about taxing consumption more and savings/investment less. When you cite e…

> On a less sarcastic note, pretty much zero mainstream economists believe that tariffs will bring back manufacturing to the US. Mainstream economists also widely agree corporate taxes and capital gains taxes are bad: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/19/157047211/six-... . Should we eliminate those taxes and have everyone pay a large VAT? I don’t have confidence that economists have fully figured out how ec…

Out of curiosity, what’s your criteria for success in this tariff endeavor?

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#437

Post by paulcole »

Terr_ wrote: post #415
paulcole wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave my reason. That it's stupid to think blaming the person matters at all. Fix the problem which is electing people like this. If my toddler scribbles on the wall I better put the markers away next time not put up a little sign that says, "Junior's Doodles."

> If my toddler scribbles on the wall I better put the markers away next time not put up a little sign that says, "Junior's Doodles." The point of "Trump Tariffs" is not to make the Trump the scribbler face that wall and feel shame for his output--everybody knows he's too damaged for that. The point is to ensure everybody else (i.e. voters) recognize that the government is taking their money and understand how it cam…

> The point of "Trump Tariffs" is not to make the Trump the scribbler face that wall and feel shame for his output--everybody knows he's too damaged for that.

Why do you believe that is the point of “Juniors Doodles”?

> The point is to ensure everybody else (i.e. voters) recognize that the government is taking their money and understand how it came to occur.

If you put “Trump’s Tariffs” there then you are fundamentally ignoring how it came to occur by blaming the person who enacted the tariffs.

You don’t blame the bomb for exploding, you blame the person who lit the fuse.

> To return to your analogy, it's some message that tells other adults to stop giving Junior their markers, from a source that is beyond your direct control.

Sorry, either this makes no sense or I’m too stupid to understand it.

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#438

Post by conductr »

bee_rider wrote: post #432
conductr wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of the argument I made to the manager in a Karenesque fashion. Why would I have even bought it if I knew it was defective? How would I have known without opening the box? Etc. I live in a state that is politically conservative and probably least likely to have similar protections but also ultimately I wasn’t going to have a legal battle over it. They lost me as a customer, well not even entirely, just fo…

Well, I can certainly appreciate not wanting to deal with the headache. But, I wouldn’t characterize it as “karenesque” to expect your tools to do what they say on the box.

lol. My delivery and general temperament was the karenesque part, I was basically yelling at the guy in the store. I was in the right though so that’s what triggered it.

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#439

Post by danesparza »

ceejayoz wrote: post #211
danesparza wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure those bananas are grown elsewhere. Hopefully we'll still be able to get bananas in the near future. At some point, buyer demand will drop so much it may not make sense to ship them.

> Pretty sure those bananas are grown elsewhere. Yes. But the tariffs are on the import price, not the shelf price. The shelf price went up as if it were on the shelf price, because consumers won't realize/understand the distinction. (Hell, a good proportion of the population still thinks someone else eats the costs entirely.) We saw the same thing during COVID - "it's because of COVID / supply chain issues" was the…

Import price + margin (and that covers a lot of ground) = shelf price.

So the one is necessarily influence by the other. I'm not sure where the breakdown in your understanding is. Trying to make a distinction doesn't really make sense. Somebody IN THE UNITED STATES is taking the brunt of this. More often than not, it will be the end-consumer.

"We saw the same thing during COVID" hints that you might understand the larger picture. You're on the right track: This comes down to supply chain costs.

Re: Amazon to display tariff costs for consumers

#440

Post by danesparza »

ceejayoz wrote: post #217
danesparza wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://www.newsweek.com/walmart-loses-22b-consumer-confiden... "You can see that the money runs out before the month is gone, you can see that people are buying smaller pack sizes at the end of the month," McMillon said. They do need to eat, but they are eating less - and not by choice. They don't have the money to buy what they want to. No amount of advertising will fix that.

Smaller pack sizes cost more per unit! People think they're saving money that way. They often aren't.

When you are stressed (because you have limited time, money and energy) you make poor decisions.

I would humbly suggest that you start engaging with more poor people and help educate them. (And I don't mean shouting advice as you walk by)

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