Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

krebsonsecurity.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 994 posts

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#431

Post by sham1 »

milesrout wrote: post #405
sapphicsnail wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern about the government and media suppressing Gaza protestors or LGBTQ books being banned or anything else that affects the left. Doesn't seem very principled to me.

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That books with graphic depictions of aren't appropriate for children is a view perfectly compatible with strong support for freedom of expression.

Okay, but counterpoint: why don't these school libraries also remove for example the Bible, a work known for extremely graphic content, eroticism, calls to kill based on one's tribe and doing stuff like working on the Sabbath. It's also a book explicitly meant for indoctrinating children into a given religion, or actually one of two religions!

These principles of what is good and age-appropriate for children doesn't seem to be applied consistently.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#432

Post by selfhoster »

move-on-by wrote: post #373

If I were to share this article with some loved ones, they would say the press deserves it for all the fake news and unfair treatment of the current administration. As for the signal aspect, the last discussion I was a part of devolved into “ MI6 did it to make trump’s team look bad”. There is some bogus ‘news’ article to back this up. I don’t know how we got here, but it’s devastating and scary.

There's always something scary for those whose team lost the last election.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#434

Post by Aurornis »

kopirgan wrote: post #399

Not really clear what this article is about. If it's about using Signal app to escape FoIA it's odd not to discuss who actually started that or use of personal servers in basements & shredding mails when caught. If it's about the leak which was inadvertent even if a sack-able offence then that's nothing to do with 1st or any amendment. If it's about free speech in general, to have any trace of integrity, objectivity…

> Not really clear what this article is about.

The article is quite clear: It’s about exactly what the title explains. I’m not sure how you would find it unclear unless you were skimming too fast to read it or you went in trying to find an angle to push a different agenda.

> If it's about using Signal app to escape FoIA it's odd not to discuss who actually started that or use of personal servers in basements & shredding mails when caught.

This is just “whataboutism”. If you want to play the whataboutism game, then what about all of the theatrics and threats that came with the email server story? Why have the rules suddenly changed so that something far worse is suddenly no big deal?

> If it's about the leak which was inadvertent even if a sack-able offence then that's nothing to do with 1st or any amendment.

If the best complaint you can muster is that it’s a different issue than the headline issue, that’s hardly a defense.

> If it's about free speech in general, to have any trace of integrity, objectivity & not sound like propaganda it must discuss the censorship and cancel culture and its inventors

Again, a weak attempt at whataboutism.

And again, it doesn’t make sense for you to try to defend one thing by comparing it to another perceived thing you don’t like (“cancel culture”).

Is your biggest concern with your article that it focused on current events instead of dwelling on these past issues? It’s an article about the current administration. Trying to drudge up past grievances is irrelevant.

> I know this comment will be unpopular given the general trend in this forum but it needs to be said. In fact how's it's received itself will itself be a good mirror.

I suspect your comment will be poorly received because it’s a weak attempt at whataboutism. It’s also logically inconsistent, given that you’re trying to downplay the current administration’s actions by comparing them to prior administration’s actions or vague culture war material. If you’re determined to dismiss any criticisms as a mirror of something, maybe pause and take some time to first think about how your own arguments could be made without reaching for whataboutism or past grievances. Try focusing on the matter at hand and who’s currently in charge, because it’s not Hilary Clinton or your “cancel culture” bogeymen making any of these decisions or lawsuits, but that’s all you want us to look at.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#435

Post by cammikebrown »

milesrout wrote: post #405
sapphicsnail wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern about the government and media suppressing Gaza protestors or LGBTQ books being banned or anything else that affects the left. Doesn't seem very principled to me.

Nobody is banning books. Removing inappropriate material from school libraries isn't book banning. Have you seen some of the books that are being removed? That books with graphic depictions of aren't appropriate for children is a view perfectly compatible with strong support for freedom of expression.

They’re literally banning The Handmaid’s Tale. Not good https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/02/margaret-a...

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#437

Post by galaxyLogic »

mmooss wrote: post #128
starchild3001 wrote: post #82

I thought this country was founded on the principles of enlightenment. And the same principles made it a world leader. Now that enlightenment values are actively being dismantled what next can we expect?

I think it starts with undermining the values: Note the disparagement of freedom, of knowledge, science, and education as ways humans can make their world better - even the idea of making the world better and of truth itself; of the rule of law rather than the rule of power, and the embrace of violence, athletics, etc. Notice the contempt for the enlightenment and embrace of ancient Rome and other sub-democratic or d…

I don't think it's accidental either but the way to understand why it's happening is to ask who benefits from it. In most cases it would seem to be, Putin. He benefits from diminishing US, from stopping US support for democracy all over the world.

If the whole world is governed by say 3 dictators they can easily make peace with each other and share the spoils. But they won't because wars will increase their domestic support. Orwell wrote about this.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#438

Post by linktraveler »

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #409
linktraveler wrote: post #175

Nothing in this article actually makes a case for infringing upon the first amendment. "...But barely two months into his second term, the president has waged an unprecedented attack on the First Amendment rights of journalists, students, universities, government workers, lawyers and judges." Should journalists who make a career destroying lives with false narratives not have consequences? Should students who hate Am…

> You can't deny this has been the most effective first 100 days in decades. That upsets you. This is what we voted for. A circus isn't effective, but it's entertaining at least.

I don't deny the circus.

Establishing Government (perplexity): "No president has moved faster than Donald Trump in 2024 to appoint Cabinet members and agency heads. By November 23, 2024, just over two weeks after Election Day, Trump had announced nominees for all 15 executive agencies, far outpacing his first term and other recent presidents like Barack Obama and Joe Biden, who took nearly 40 days to reach similar milestones. Additionally, the Senate has confirmed Trump’s nominees at a faster rate compared to his first term and Biden’s early days in office."

Illegal immigration: down to near 0

DOGE: Cut $260B in spending as of this post: https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Is there a counterpoint to this?

Something Obama, Biden, Clinton, or GW Bush did in first 100 days?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#439

Post by abeppu »

slibhb wrote: post #257
p1necone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

> Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics. And, for whatever it's worth, every vocal "free speech person" I know doesn't like the current administation. Some people actually just have…

I think the swerve that makes free speech absolutism less credible now than a generation ago is the prominence that lies and misinformation have gained in the discourse.

I think you can still believe that any political, religious or economic view is fair to say/publish/broadcast as an ernest expression of perspective, and that even potentially hateful views inevitably come along for that ride. We tolerate the KKK producing literature bc that's the cost for _everyone_ being able to speak. But it's much harder to make the argument that intentional lies and misinformation deserve the same protections as good faith expressions of minority views.

When a person asserts that we need to protect speech which is intended to mislead, isn't it natural to be suspicious?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#440

Post by Sargos »

nine_zeros wrote: post #46

I find it remarkable that Americans are ok with rule by executive order instead of rule by congressional law. I also find it fascinating that no federal judge has held any Trump administration officers in contempt or imposed sanctions/bans on officers who are continuously hurting constitutional rights. I assume that Americans have been sleeping at the wheel, unaware of the threat of slide into fascism. But is the vot…

>I find it remarkable that Americans are ok with rule by executive order instead of rule by congressional law.

Can you cite a poll for this? Most Americans have never been asked and likely aren't okay with it but we don't really have a choice in the matter.

When it comes down to it the decision on how executive orders work is based on what a few dozen people think and most of them aren't elected. The general public has no say in the matter.

Post reply on HN