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The Burnout Machine

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#431

Post by nradov »

snozolli wrote: post #225
jacobgkau wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My initial reaction to this whole thing was the same as yours (not that I have any love lost for academics). Software engineers do basically no physical labor and usually get paid better than many people who physically work way harder. On the whole, software engineers are not "the victim," as you said. However, your examples made me think. > In other places, you can have a typical 40h/week job at a salary way better…

Software engineers do basically no physical labor I developed debilitating tendinitis in both wrists right about the time I graduated college. A decade later, I developed a bulged disc in my neck that ended my career. There are very real risks to your body from sitting at a computer, deep in thought all day. There's a whole other swath of health issues, too, beside injury risks.

Take some responsibility for your own health. You're not chained to your desk; get up and walk around occasionally. Go for a run or hit a quick gym session during your lunch break.

I started having wrist pain years ago and switched to an ergonomic split keyboard years ago which completely fixed that problem. Little laptop keyboard are terrible for any extensive typing.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#433

Post by nradov »

hirvi74 wrote: post #362
blinded wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1000% this. My partner is in the medical field, the absurd schedule they put up with and the amount they are required to work when tired is the worst. Some close friends do contracting / construction, it takes a tole on their bodies. People that take above senior level roles or "FANG" jobs should expect to grind.

I feel like being a dev has taken a toll on my body in the opposite direction ---- "use it or lose it." Perhaps it's because my brain is full of software issues itself, but I don't have enough energy nor motivation before/after work to do anything else. Luckily, I am somehow healthy-ish in terms of medical metrics, but I know at my current trajectory, I won't be able to sustain it for many more years.

Energy and motivation are irrelevant. Discipline is all that matters. Go out and do a hard workout every day no matter how tired you are or how miserable it makes you. Eventually it will just become a habit.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#434

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

throwaway17824 wrote: post #309
kulahan wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t wrong. In every industry, there will always be people who struggle to find employment. It’s a necessary part of the economic machine. One hopes it is not always the same person suffering, of course. Still, absolutely everything about this industry is inflated. Pepsi just bought Poppi for $1.5B. That’s a HUGE DEAL, but hardly worth mentioning when compared with the $70B that Microsoft spent on Activision-Bl…

> Making $80k a year is a GREAT salary. That’s going to invoke a hearty yawn from many when comparing to dev salaries. I'd like to draw a distinction here: $80k is very good, by the standards of what most people can get. $80k is middling-to-poor compared to how fast the cost of living is going up. Housing prices are skyrocketing, people have no savings, can't afford emergencies. The economy is leaving people behind.…

My starting salary was a not-extravagant $55K 25 years ago when .coms were handing out $100K+ to CS grads. That's $100K today. $80K is exceedingly low even for juniors in a highly skilled profession

Re: The Burnout Machine

#435

Post by hirvi74 »

Minor49er wrote: post #383
hirvi74 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never taken a gap year, but all I will say is that there is also a risk to remaining in one's comfort.

You mean the risk of not wanting to return to work after such a break?

That is a valid risk, for sure. What I initially meant was that taking a gap year is a risk and not taking one is also a risk.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#436

Post by kimi »

> We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion." And what do we get in return? Burnout, anxiety, and the constant threat of layoffs.

..apart from 6- or 7-figure pay, a chance to hit it real big, and to built things that everybody uses? and this for job positions that 40-years ago commanded an average salary, because the latest React is not rocket science.

Reminds me of "apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

Re: The Burnout Machine

#437

Post by scott_w »

mojomark wrote: post #399
mojomark wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting take, but I have a slightly different take. My ding dong company pays everyone including myself, salaries that are way too high. They gave ne a 30% raise I didn't even ask for or expect. We get a contract to do X, which say should take a team of 5 folks. However, we can only staff the contract with 3 folks because our salaries are too high. Now, we're all working 80hr weeks and stressed to the…

Really weird that my comment was downvoted. No idea why. I guess HN just isn't for me after 10 years. Peace out.

It happens, I wouldn’t sweat it

Re: The Burnout Machine

#438

Post by throwaway2037 »

Buttons840 wrote: post #343
theamk wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes? pretty sure state-sponsored healthcare is going to be much better, both for individual and population, than the current mess that US has. You should not require unions just to get help with your health problems.

Having healthcare tied to employment is antithetical to the most basic principles of our economy: people should be able to freely and easily change jobs and/or pause employment--that is the "free" in free market.

    > pause employment
What does this mean?

Re: The Burnout Machine

#439

Post by throwaway2037 »

awongh wrote: post #378
echelon wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made $450k TC in my last job. In Atlanta. I don't think we need unions to be treated well. Unions will kickstart the offshoring of our career. Just like every other place unions exist without a talent monopoly (manufacturing, automotive, and most recently film crews). Google is going to hire in developing markets and stop hiring domestically. Everyone else will follow. The talent in India is incredible these days.…

There are simple location-based reasons why jobs wouldn't be offshored- longshoremen, electricians and plumbers, flight attendants (for USA based airlines), and also the NYT tech staff are unlikely to be offshored. I'm still not sure that unions don't make sense for tech- it seems like the idea that tech workers need protection from their employers is gaining ground. I also think there are still a lot of reasons why…

    > also the NYT tech staff are unlikely to be offshored
I agree with most of your list, but not this one. Tech staff is one of the easiest jobs to offshore. It has been happening since the early 2000s in the US to lower cost locations (mostly India, the others later). Is there anything special about the NYT tech staff that makes them less likely to be offshored?

Re: The Burnout Machine

#440

Post by capitalatrisk »

pdfernhout wrote: post #381
jacobgkau wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My initial reaction to this whole thing was the same as yours (not that I have any love lost for academics). Software engineers do basically no physical labor and usually get paid better than many people who physically work way harder. On the whole, software engineers are not "the victim," as you said. However, your examples made me think. > In other places, you can have a typical 40h/week job at a salary way better…

Some tangential thoughts and rambles on this to try to get at the deeper issues, first from Jeff Schmidt about his book "Disciplined Minds" which encourages solidarity of intellectual workers: https://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ "Who are you going to be? That is the question. In this riveting book about the world of professional work, Jeff Schmidt demonstrates that the workplace is a battleground for the very identi…

What is the point you're trying to make here? Interesting sources but find it difficult to follow.
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