Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

news.ycombinator.com

431–440 of 554 posts

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#431
post #51

This echoes the user agent checking that was prevalent in past times. Websites would limit features and sometimes refuse to render for the "wrong" browser, even if that browser had the ability to display the website just fine. So browsers started pretending to be other browsers in their user agents. Case in point - my Chrome browser, running on an M3 mac, has the following user agent: "'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel…

> That means my browser is pretending to be Firefox AND Safari on an Intel chip.

That's not the case, that ua is Chrome on MacOS. The rest is backward compatibility garbage

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#432
post #392
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some political-philosophical irony that the Chinese prefer their government to do the blocking and take away their freedom, while the US prefers their monopolistic capitalistic corporate world to do it. A rose by any other name. Chose your friends carefully.

To trivialize totalitarian regimes that carry out terror against their own citizens, that can outright kill you and whole your family, by comparing them to capitalistic corporate world where, in the worst case, you can simply choose another, less fancy option, is the height of madness.

I'd feel a lot safer walking the streets of any city in China late at night than I would in any blue states "zero tolerance" "gun free" zone.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#433

Yesterday I was attempting to buy a product on a small retailer's website—as soon as I hit the "add to cart" button I got a message from Cloudflare: "Sorry, you have been blocked". My only recourse was to message the owner of the domain asking them to unblock me. Of course, I didn't, and decided to buy the product elsewhere. I wasn't doing anything suspicious.. using Arc on a M1 MBP; normal browsing habits. Not sure…

Same thing with Captchas. If I'm placing a food order or something and I'm presented with a Captcha 9 times out of 10 I just say "screw it."

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be weird, esp. given that Cloudflare is one of the vendors who act as exit nodes for iCloud Relay.

I don't think that's weird. That's what I would want from an honest vendor who is involved in both services - block anonymization/obfuscation users if I'm paying you to block them. Apple/Cloudflare don't sell/support iCloud Relay as a service that is guaranteed to get you treated nicely by the parties on the other end, so they're not being deceptive with that part either. What I'd worry about is Cloudflare using thei…

> Apple/Cloudflare don't sell/support iCloud Relay as a service that is guaranteed to get you treated nicely by the parties on the other end, so they're not being deceptive with that part either.

They really do, actually. The fine print on their page only states:

iCloud Private Relay is not available in all countries or regions. Without access to your IP address, some websites may require extra steps to sign in or access content.

And they have documentation linked on that same page for website owners: https://developer.apple.com/icloud/prepare-your-network-for-... which even goes a step further and encourages website operators to use Privacy Pass to allow iCloud Private Relay users skip CAPTCHA challenges.

And really, this checks out, because iCloud Private Relay has a unique combination of circumstances compared to other commercial VPN users and Tor because:

* It isn't explicitly designed as a bypass tool of any form like commercial VPN's, your options for IP location are "same general location" or "same country and time zone" - content providers have no reason to block it for allowing out of region access

* Private relay is backed by iCloud authentication of both the device and the user, you can be beyond reasonably sure that traffic coming from an iCloud Private Relay endpoint is a paying iCloud+ user, browsing with safari, using their iPhone/iPad/Mac.

* It is backed by one of the most recognizable brands in the world, with a user base who is more likely to send you nasty messages for blocking this service.

On particular note of the last one, there's no "exception list" or anything available for end-users in Safari to bypass Private Relay for specific sites. My work one day decided to add the entire "Anonymizers" category to the blocklist in Okta, and I was suddenly unable to access any work applications on my iPhone which is enrolled in our enterprise MDM solution because I have Private Relay enabled. Enough people complained that the change was rolled back the same day it was implemented, because the solution was "turn it off" and that was unacceptable to many of our users.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#435
The latest deployment seems using Service Worker API, which causes broken on "old" browsers because the API is not supported on these browsers.

Some people like me who block Service Worker API all the time are also affected, like https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/no-service-worker/m... this.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if they did violate the ADA, do you seriously expect this administration's anti-DEI Department of Justice to pursue legal action?

[flagged]

I can find you literally hundreds of posts from people insisting that ADA is nothing but a small-business-killing shakedown, that it's makework for lawyers, that it's doing nothing to help the disabled, and that it's just as bad if not worse than DEI. What makes your claim better than theirs?

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#437

Yesterday I was attempting to buy a product on a small retailer's website—as soon as I hit the "add to cart" button I got a message from Cloudflare: "Sorry, you have been blocked". My only recourse was to message the owner of the domain asking them to unblock me. Of course, I didn't, and decided to buy the product elsewhere. I wasn't doing anything suspicious.. using Arc on a M1 MBP; normal browsing habits. Not sure…

Cloudflare doesn't report this to the site admins so they're just sitting there losing sales and thinking Cloudflare is doing a good job.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#438
Cloudflare has essentially broken the internet. Blocking or restricting access of even residential IPs running in a real, common browser is evil. And just like that, we handed over the internet to a handful of companies, like it was never ours to begin with.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#439
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hosting web sites on my own bare metal in colo for more than 25 years. In all that time I've dealt with one DDoS that was big enough to bring everything down, and that was because of a specific person being pissed at another specific person. The attacker did jail time for DDoS activities. Every other attempt at DDoS has been ineffective, has been form abuse and credential stuffing, has been generally amateu…

I'm sorry but lumping in people who prefer to use a weird browser with "marginalised people" does not help your credibility.

You're focusing on the wrong kind of pedantry.

"Marginalized" has a specific connotation, sure, but people can be marginalized for reasons other than, or in addition to, those that fit the connotation.

Re: Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

#440
post #277
post #51

This echoes the user agent checking that was prevalent in past times. Websites would limit features and sometimes refuse to render for the "wrong" browser, even if that browser had the ability to display the website just fine. So browsers started pretending to be other browsers in their user agents. Case in point - my Chrome browser, running on an M3 mac, has the following user agent: "'Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel…

I'm still using Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 6_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/536.26 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/6.0 Mobile/10A5376e Safari/8536.25 on my desktop. The internet is so much better like this! There is a 2010 lightweight mobile version of Google, and m.youtube with obviously cleaner and better UI and not a single ad (apparently it's not worth to show you ads if you still appear to be using iphone 6)

I tried this just for fun and youtube said to update my browser :(
Post reply on HN