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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#431

Post by isaacremuant »

almostdeadguy wrote: post #379
isaacremuant wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That is a common narrative from democrat leaning people. The same ones who called me a terrorist sympathesizer for not wanting to invade libya. The same ones that now think Trump/Musk are more evil than Bush who illegally invaded Iraq because that's what the narrative tells them. Forgive me if I laugh at your "full stops" and other absolutist statements. Cried wolf/nazi/evil too many times.

Lots of people on the left who believe Bush was the worst president this country has seen in recent history, that Obama largely continued Bush’s foreign policy, and that Trumps co-conspiracy with billionaires may end up similarly to a Boris Yeltsin in the US, with large amounts of the state apparatus sold to the highest bidder or most loyal, trampling on the rights and safety net offered by the govt in the process (a…

> Don’t really sympathize with the whining about hypocrisy or how you claim to be personally victimized by people who are hypocrites

I was with you until this strawman. You don't seem to have a point after agreeing with me.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#432

Post by handoflixue »

oasisaimlessly wrote: post #166
handoflixue wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example. I have never really understood this parallel. What laws got broken, there?

Don't confuse legality with morality.

Okay, but that still begs the obvious question: what was immoral about it?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#433

Post by handoflixue »

lmm wrote: post #183
handoflixue wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example. I have never really understood this parallel. What laws got broken, there?

No laws were broken. But it's very much in line with what the article is talking about: > What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the peo…

What information was withheld? I hadn't heard national security invoked in this context before.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#434

Post by lucianbr »

computerthings wrote: post #423
lucianbr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really have no clue about history, and what you say sounds very reasonable. I guess it is true. But I think any person who wants to live in a democracy needs a bare minimum ability to detect trickery. Because there has not yet been invented a system where none of the politicians lie, and you can make good decisions based on taking them all at their word. Now, maybe the level of subversion and trickery in pre-WW2 Ge…

The claim was Germans (not some, not a lot, not most; just "Germans") knowingly voted for all that came after. That would be false even if Hitler had been actually elected, instead of appointed.

Do you think there was any way at all to prevent what came after?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#435

Post by pseudalopex »

tmpz22 wrote: post #54
BytesAndGears wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: thanks for all of the replies, I’m questioning my framing here now due to some smart people’s thoughts.. I suggest reading the full thread, as there are some interesting comments. I see the obvious parallels to Trump, and I agree completely (and hate that it is happening). But I feel like I also see a lot of parallels to the democrats. Deciding Kamala would be the candidate without any public vote, for example.…

You’re being gaslit. Democrats did not subvert the checks and balances of our system - they faced opposition in all their initiatives in the judiciary, house, and senate. What Musk is doing now amongst a silent government is unprecedented. His youth group is marching into federal offices walking past security and taking everything because people are afraid. They’re afraid of being fired. They’re afraid of reprisals.…

> That is the next step. Lists of names.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/federal-health-wo...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#436

Post by eigart »

mandmandam wrote: post #417
eigart wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this specific case the greater evil was clearly “the same or worse”, but with the opportunity for an irreparable, fatal outcome for Gaza. I think lesser evils are present in every election. By your logic, total surrender is the only outcome. I appreciate you engaging, but agree to disagree I guess.

> lesser evils are present in every election. No, there are usually viable, non-genocidal third options - as there was in this election. > By your logic, total surrender is the only outcome. That's the very logical flaw which has you thinking that stumping for a genocide accomplice was 'the only option'. You're so close .

I have made a genuine attempt to understand what the third viable option is. I may be too dumb.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#437

Post by 9dev »

mandmandam wrote: post #252
9dev wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…and the YC CEO defending the hostile takeover of government agencies by (smart, I give you that, but still) teenagers.

I hadn't seen that, and am not finding it.. Have you got a link?

This is the tweet I was referring to:

> Whoever made the original graphic doesn’t understand the scale and speed of smart high IQ people who can program, and what they can do in a moment when intelligence now on infinite tap using LLMs

https://x.com/garrytan/status/1886283334466302201

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#438

Post by littlestymaar »

throw310822 wrote: post #247
littlestymaar wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I hate the Nazis at the top of Israel's government and Western complicity in the ethnic cleansing occurring in Gaza (and more recently the West Bank too), I find your statement disturbing. Not everything is related to Israel, and there's no good reason to believe that this has anything to do with Israel. French media were pretty critical of Joe Bidden being too old for the job, despite Bidden giving Netany…

> Not everything is related to Israel, and there's no good reason to believe that this has anything to do with Israel Netanyahu himself tweeted in support of Elon Musk after his nazi-like salute. This is obviously about Israel. > it's quite clear now that you're confusing the fight for the freedom of Palestinians and the hatred of Jews I didn't mention Jews, you are the one confusing Jews and Israel. There are many J…

You are claiming that Israel has “irresistible leverage” over American presidents, so you're gonna need a lot of clarification to who that this isn't an antisemitic dog whistle. What exactly do you think this leverage is?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#439

Post by computerthings »

lucianbr wrote: post #434
computerthings wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claim was Germans (not some, not a lot, not most; just "Germans") knowingly voted for all that came after. That would be false even if Hitler had been actually elected, instead of appointed.

Do you think there was any way at all to prevent what came after?

I'd say of course, but that's easy to say with hindsight.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#440

Post by concordDance »

elif wrote: post #287
rsynnott wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there exists a subset of the population that cannot and will not be educated or have the ability to reason on a certain level to make things work I'm sceptical of that. I tend to suspect that Michael Gove's "the people have had enough of experts" thing was _kind_ of correct; there's a deep strain of anti-expert feeling throughout, at least, the West at the moment. (I don't think this is quite the same as traditiona…

The anti mask, anti vax, anti chromosomal expression, anti 'tariffs are taxes' are beyond "anti-expert" These positions are flatly anti-base-reality. If you want to frame them in terms of authority rejection, you could call them anti-first graders

> anti chromosomal expression

Genuinely couldn't figure out what this is a euphamism for.

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