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String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#431
post #49

Most of the news coverage I've seen of this story is omitting what some might consider a relevant detail: almost all the members of this group are trans. This is a divisive topic, but failing to mention this makes me worry a story is pushing a particular agenda rather than trying to tell the facts. Here's what the story looks like if the trans activism is considered central to the story: https://thepostmillennial.com…

it's been an exhausting couple of weeks for me, as a trans person. one executive order after another, explicitly attacking us. scrambling to update all my documents, navigating a Kafkaesque bureaucracy with constantly shifting rules. now this. there are like six Zizians. there are millions of trans people. I'm sure that many of the Zizians being trans says something about the Ziz cult, but Ziz doesn't say anything ab…

Keep fighting, Sterlind. Most people aren't full of hate. Just the assholes who take the time to comment mean things on social platforms.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great example of superficially smart people creating echo chambers which then turn sour, but they can't escape. There's a very good reason that, "Buying your own press" is a cliched pejorative, and this is an extreme end of that. More generally it's just a depressing example of how rationalism in the LW sense has become a sort of cult-of-cults, with the same old existential dread packaged in a new "rational" form.…

My explanation for why Eliezer went from vocal AI optimist to AI pessimist is that he became more knowledgeable about AI. What is your explanation? I've seen the explanation that AI pessimism helped Eliezer attract donations, but that does not work because his biggest donor when he started going public with his pessimism (2003 through 2006) was Peter Theil, who responded to his turn to pessimism by refusing to contin…

correct. there isnt a single well founded argument to dismiss AI alarmism. people are very attached to the idea that more technology is invariably better. and they are very reluctant to saddle themselves with the emotional burden of seeing whats right in front of them.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#433
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any evil one trans person does, is used to stain all trans people. recognize this tendency; don't let this become like blood libel. As a Christian, I can empathize. The wrongs and hypocrisies of so many are heaped on those who have no relation to the actions.

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I was raised Catholic but no longer practice. Many Christians don't believe they choose Christianity. They believe they are 'called by Christ' to serve.

So, I think the analogy, at least for those people, holds.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "rationalists". Sounds like they have some sort of superiority complex Oh yes, this is totally a thing. They're also weirdly obsessed with I.Q. comparisons. They're the kind of community where you might actually witness someone talking about "High I.Q." and "Low I.Q." individuals - and making a claim like "my I.Q. is one of the highest", way before someone else made that cool.

So, like Hacker News?

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Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businessmen like Elon and Sam Altman, you mean?

The very ones, both of them had and have every reason to hype AI as much as possible, and still do for that matter. Altman in particular seems to relish the use of the "oh no what I'm making is so scary, it's even scaring me" fundraising method.

Eliezer was hyping AI back in the 1990s though. Really really hyping it. And by the time of the conversations with Sam and Elon in 2015, he had been employed full time as an AI researcher for 15 years.

Here is an example (written in year 2000) of Eliezer's hyping of AI:

>The Singularity holds out the possibility of winning the Grand Prize, the true Utopia, the best-of-all-possible-worlds - not just freedom from pain and stress or a sterile round of endless physical pleasures, but the prospect of endless growth for every human being - growth in mind, in intelligence, in strength of personality; life without bound, without end; experiencing everything we've dreamed of experiencing, becoming everything we've ever dreamed of being; not for a billion years, or ten-to-the-billionth years, but forever... or perhaps embarking together on some still greater adventure of which we cannot even conceive. That's the Apotheosis. If any utopia, any destiny, any happy ending is possible for the human species, it lies in the Singularity. There is no evil I have to accept because "there's nothing I can do about it". There is no abused child, no oppressed peasant, no starving beggar, no crack-addicted infant, no cancer patient, literally no one that I cannot look squarely in the eye. I'm working to save everybody, heal the planet, solve all the problems of the world.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010204095500/http://sysopmind.c...

Another example (written in 2001):

>The Plan to Singularity ("PtS" for short) is an attempt to describe the technologies and efforts needed to move from the current (2000) state of the world to the Singularity; that is, the technological creation of a smarter-than-human intelligence. The method assumed by this document is a seed AI, or self-improving Artificial Intelligence, which will successfully enhance itself to the level where it can decide what to do next.

>PtS is an interventionist timeline; that is, I am not projecting the course of the future, but describing how to change it. I believe the target date for the completion of the project should be set at 2010, with 2005 being preferable; again, this is not the most likely date, but is the probable deadline for beating other, more destructive technologies into play. (It is equally possible that progress in AI and nanotech will run at a more relaxed rate, rather than developing in "Internet time". We can't count on finishing by 2005. We also can't count on delaying until 2020.)

http://web.archive.org/web/20010213215810/http://sysopmind.c...

No longer is he hyping AI though: he's trying to get it shut down till (many decades from now) we become wise enough to handle it without killing ourselves.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#437
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people can and do have mental illness. it doesn't absolve them from knowing right from wrong however.

> it doesn't absolve them from knowing right from wrong however Certain mental conditions absolutely do, in a legal sense. Some conditions onset from brain injury and tumors, some to drug exposure, some are genetic, etc. For those unfortunate few who are afflicted, the most humane outcome is to intervene to keep them away from harming themselves and others, though often they are left unattended to by overstretched me…

Does it really count if the difference is "be removed from society for a while by being sent to prison" vs "be removed from society indefinitely by being sent to inpatient lockup"?

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Of what exactly? I haven't claimed any conspiracy, that's all stuff Trump bragged about on the news. Bringing up the "criminality of the Biden family" is a legitimately insane thing to do when defending Trump.

You'll note the parent didn't cite any examples of the criminality of the Biden family, despite demanding examples of things on the front page of news today.

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#439

This story happened in my backyard. The shootout was about 40 minutes from me but Youngblut and Felix Bauckholt were reported by a hotel clerk dressed in tactical gear and sporting firearms in a hotel a few blocks from me. Weird to see a community I followed show up so close to home and negatively like this. I always just read LW and appreciated some of the fundamentals that this group seems to have ignored. Stuff li…

> Weird to see a community I followed show up so close to home and negatively like this. I had some coworkers who were really into LessWrong and rationality. I thought it was fun to read some of the selected writings they would share, but I always felt that online rationalist communities collected a lot of people with reactionary, fascist, misogynistic, and far-right tendencies. There’s a heavily sanitized version of…

I think astral codex ten did a survey recently and the majority of respondents were politically left

Re: String of recent killings linked to Bay Area 'Zizians'

#440
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes unmentioned because there is an unwritten rule in progressive media that marginalized groups must never be perceived as doing wrong, because that will deepen their marginalization. In practice it creates a moral blind spot where the worst extremists get a pass, in the name of protecting the rest. Non-progressive media are all too happy to fill in the gap. Cue resentment, cue backlash, cue Trump. Way to go, gu…

conservative media has the opposite rule: make every story about a trans person into a narrative about trans ideology. this should be a story about an ideological cult with trans members, but instead it's a story about the cult of trans ideology. it's called "nut picking" - use the worst examples of a group to tarnish the group as a whole. a good example of this is attacks against Muslim Americans after 9/11.

Is it the same for judging all MAGA as Nazis?

I ask that in all earnestness. I am not a MAGA or a MAGA apologist.

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