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Craigslist Suing Padmapper

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Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#431

Post by darma1 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #428
pg wrote: post #210

Craig Newmark said on Quora that the reason they didn't like people building stuff on top of Craigslist was simply the extra bandwidth they consumed: http://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-anyone-built-any-products-on-... But now that 3Taps has found an ingenious way to get at the data with zero extra bandwidth cost to Craigslist (by retrieving it from the Google cache rather than CL itself), it's clear that what Craigslist…

I'm sure Craig was speaking truthfully when he made his comment. But he is but one piece of a whole, and that whole includes folks who count the pennies. And business person associated with Craigslist would know that the only value Craigslist has is its listings. Giving those away to be re-used by another web site would never fly with such a person. I don't doubt for a minute when you tell someone is taking money out…

If they go to court and get an opinion it should be really helpful as a guide for other entrepreneurs who see re-processing the information on the web in new ways as the foundation for their business.

You mean, like Blekko?

The simple, inconvenient truth is most folks who are making money from the web, like search engines, are not content creators (nor content owners), they are content publishers... who publish for free. "Are you a non-technical person who wants to get something onto the web? No problem. We'll help you with that, for free. Just give us some personal info about you so we can solicit money from advertisers."

(Placement, e.g., paid placement, where the eyeballs are more likely to see something, for a fee, is another matter.)

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#432

Post by colinsidoti »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #276
pg wrote: post #210

Craig Newmark said on Quora that the reason they didn't like people building stuff on top of Craigslist was simply the extra bandwidth they consumed: http://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-anyone-built-any-products-on-... But now that 3Taps has found an ingenious way to get at the data with zero extra bandwidth cost to Craigslist (by retrieving it from the Google cache rather than CL itself), it's clear that what Craigslist…

When I think of Padmapper, I think of the naughtiness: "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not about observing proprieties. That's why I'd use the word naughty rather than evil. They delight in breaking rules, but not rules that matter. This q…

Naughtiness was using CL to seed their site in the first place. After the Cease and Desist, using 3Taps as a source CL data was simply walking into a lawsuit.

Generally, I don't think you want your naughtiness to tie you up in a legal battle.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#433

Post by darma1 »

nlh wrote: post #138

I find this sort of thing very frustrating to read: "The search tool is antiquated, the images are poor or nonexistent, locations of listings are hardly dependable, and you can forget about an integrated way to save anything for later reference. There is a litany of shortcomings that come with the Craigslist apartment search; they are many and they are painful..." If you don't like the site, don't like the UI, and ca…

Too much obsession over UI.

What people really "need" is the raw data.

If they want to make some UI that they like, then they can do it. If they want to offer this to others, they can do it.

If they want to load the data into some SQL database, they can do it.

If they want split the data into some other format using csplit and load into some other faster database, they can do it.

If they want to extract a portion of a raw file and just use agrep on that, they can do it.

The point is that UI is a personal decision.

Because some people do not like CL's bare bones UI doesn't give them the right to do anything. Because some people don't like bloated and clumsy web interfaces and prefer text commands doesn't give them the right to do anything either.

But people can't be stopped from making personal decisions about how to process data. Public data.

It's funny how some websites think they "own" data that is given to them. Do they "need" this data? Yes, they do.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#434

Post by discwrit »

colinsidoti wrote: post #432
juiceandjuice wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of Padmapper, I think of the naughtiness: "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not about observing proprieties. That's why I'd use the word naughty rather than evil. They delight in breaking rules, but not rules that matter. This q…

Naughtiness was using CL to seed their site in the first place. After the Cease and Desist, using 3Taps as a source CL data was simply walking into a lawsuit. Generally, I don't think you want your naughtiness to tie you up in a legal battle.

Case will never go to trial. Maybe a "legal battle" was the only option.

Can CL "win"? Can they stop everyone else, PadMapper is but the first of many, no doubt, from re-displaying facts (classified ads) in different formats?

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#435

Post by tomwalsham »

pg wrote: post #210

Craig Newmark said on Quora that the reason they didn't like people building stuff on top of Craigslist was simply the extra bandwidth they consumed: http://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-anyone-built-any-products-on-... But now that 3Taps has found an ingenious way to get at the data with zero extra bandwidth cost to Craigslist (by retrieving it from the Google cache rather than CL itself), it's clear that what Craigslist…

Can you comment on the status of Priceonomics (YC) in this context? They're building a rich interface on top of CL listings data, presumably using 3Taps to get the volume of data without drawing attention.

Is the endgame for these companies to replace the content source, or to hope (or fight for) a legal precedent to 'open' CL data for third party usage?

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#436

Post by [deleted] »

fffggg wrote: post #424
res0nat0r wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How have you determined that every users listing on Padmapper doesn't care it has been scraped from CL and relisted? Did they contact every user and get their permission first?

It's not necessary for them to do so. It's incumbent upon CL to prove the infringement, not the other way around.

[deleted]

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#437

Post by res0nat0r »

csallen wrote: post #388
res0nat0r wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key point is that the TOS says that you grant Craigslist the right to redistribute your listing where ever they see fit, it doesn't say some third party entity has the right to do that.

As far as I'm aware, if you post information in a place where it will be publicly accessible, then you are tacitly agreeing that third parties will be able to access it and use it as they please. That's not a right that needs to be given to these third parties. It exists from the get-go, and must be explicitly taken away by something like copyright.

So I can legally start amazon-copied-reviews.com and scrape every product review from amazon.com with my own referrer links to Walmart without fear of repercussion? Sweet.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#438

Post by nmridul »

slig wrote: post #177
learc83 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The argument is that you are stealing resources (computer time) from the site owner. That's why 3taps is getting the data from google's cache without touching craigslist servers.

How the heck are they scraping Google without being banned or rate limited?

Amazon/ other clouds out there. Just auto provision your instances (lots of them), scrap, sleep, wake, scrap, sleep...

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#439

Post by delackner »

The USER intent is to have their listing seen by as many people as possible. If the courts decide that the listing site can block access to such public listings they have been entrusted with, I don't know how the law needs to change, but the current legal situation is bad for the general public, bad for commerce, and bad for progress.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#440

Post by mckoss »

vellum wrote: post #296
pg wrote: post #210

Craig Newmark said on Quora that the reason they didn't like people building stuff on top of Craigslist was simply the extra bandwidth they consumed: http://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-anyone-built-any-products-on-... But now that 3Taps has found an ingenious way to get at the data with zero extra bandwidth cost to Craigslist (by retrieving it from the Google cache rather than CL itself), it's clear that what Craigslist…

Craig Newmark now says (6/25/12): "folks, please remember, #craigslist community feedback massively against the use of their stuff for the profit of others." https://twitter.com/craignewmark/status/217323728260972544

Why would apt owners NOT want their listings cross posted and distributed to the largest possible audience? I call BS.
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