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ChatGPT Search

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Re: ChatGPT Search

#431

Post by summerlight »

I don't understand those people who hope that LLM-based search will reduce or eliminate ads in search results. And that's not going to happen. You're conflating two orthogonal problems. In fact, LLM is much more expensive so you will need more aggressive ads to fund it. And ads in LLM based search engine will be harder to remove since it's deeply ingrained in the generated result.

The fundamental problem is that ads based business model is much more lucrative then subscription based one. It's even more extreme when you take account of a prospective view, since you have control on ads shown which gives you a large margin for future revenue improvements compared to rigid subscription models. Unless you have a way to change this dynamic, you're going to eventually see ads in search results, regardless of its format.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#432

Post by tivert »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #404
jsheard wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The concern I have with LLMs replacing search is that once it starts being monetized with ads or propaganda, it's going to be very dangerous. Not to mention that users consuming most content through a middle-man completely breaks most publishers business models. Traditional search is a mutually beneficial arrangement, but LLM search is parasitic. Expect to see a lot more technical countermeasures and/or lawsuits ag…

> Traditional search is a mutually beneficial arrangement, but LLM search is parasitic. Traditional search is mutually beneficial... to search providers and publishers. At expense of the users. LLM search is becoming popular because it lets users, for however short time this will last, escape the fruits of the "mutually beneficial arrangement". If anything, that arrangement of publishers and providers became an actua…

> Traditional search is mutually beneficial... to search providers and publishers. At expense of the users. LLM search is becoming popular because it lets users, for however short time this will last, escape the fruits of the "mutually beneficial arrangement".

Out of the pot and into the fire, as they say.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#433

Post by ericmcer »

freediver wrote: post #241

Been thinking about this a lot [1]. Will this fundamentally change how people find and access information? How do you create an experience so compelling that it replaces the current paradigm? The future promised in Star Trek and even Apple's Knowledge Navigator [2] from 1987 still feels distant. In those visions, users simply asked questions and received reliable answers - nobody had to fact-check the answers ever. C…

I am excited for a future where I search for some info and don't end up sifting through ads and getting distracted by some tangential clickbait article.

Fundamentally it feels like that cant happen though because there is no money in it, but a reality where my phone is an all knowing voice I can reliably get info from instead of a distraction machine would be awesome.

I do "no screen" days sometimes and tried to do one using chatGPT voice mode so I could look things up without staring at a screen. It was miles from replacing search, but I would adopt it in a second if it could.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#434

Post by benbristow »

I thought this would be more like an actual search engine (like Google with ChatGPT built in). Microsoft have been doing similar with Copilot since it's inception, albeit they seem to have removed the web search functionality with the latest update.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#435

Post by whiplash451 »

wvenable wrote: post #286
freediver wrote: post #241

Been thinking about this a lot [1]. Will this fundamentally change how people find and access information? How do you create an experience so compelling that it replaces the current paradigm? The future promised in Star Trek and even Apple's Knowledge Navigator [2] from 1987 still feels distant. In those visions, users simply asked questions and received reliable answers - nobody had to fact-check the answers ever. C…

> Will this fundamentally change how people find and access information? How do you create an experience so compelling that it replaces the current paradigm? I think it's already compelling enough to replace the current paradigm. Search is pretty much dead to me. I have to end every search with "reddit" to get remotely useful results. The concern I have with LLMs replacing search is that once it starts being monetize…

For what it’s worth, sama said at a Harvard event recently that he “despised” ads and would use them at a last resort. It came across as genuine and I have the intuition/hope that they might find an alternative.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#436

Post by freedomben »

freediver wrote: post #241

Been thinking about this a lot [1]. Will this fundamentally change how people find and access information? How do you create an experience so compelling that it replaces the current paradigm? The future promised in Star Trek and even Apple's Knowledge Navigator [2] from 1987 still feels distant. In those visions, users simply asked questions and received reliable answers - nobody had to fact-check the answers ever. C…

I genuinely think Kagi has led the way on this one. Simplicity is beautiful and effective, and Kagi has (IMHO) absolutely nailed it with their AI approach. It's one of those things that in hindsight seems obvious, which is a pretty good measure of how good an idea is IMHO.

Google could have done it and kind of tried, although they're AI sucks too much. I'm very surprised that OpenAI hasn't done this sooner as well. They're initial implementation of web search was sad. I don't mean to be super critical as I think generally OpenAI is very, very good at what they do, but they're initial browse the web was a giant hack that I would expect from an intern who isn't being given good guidance by their mentors.

Once mainstream engines start getting on par with Kagi, there's gonna be a massive wave of destruction and opportunity. I'm guessing there will be a lot of new pay walls popping up, and lots of access deals with the search engines. This will even further raise the barrier of entry for new search entrants, and will further fragment information access between the haves and have-nots.

I'm also cautiously optimistic though. We'll get there, but it's gonna be a bit shakey for a minute or two.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#437

Post by rushingcreek »

gwbas1c wrote: post #420

Phind kinda-sorta did this. For awhile I used it as my primary search, but limitations made me go back to Google. Hopefully ChatGPT's version works very well. Phind was more of a kludge to demonstrate what combining chat AI and search can do.

We're working on a complete redesign of Phind to make it more of a search competitor :)

What were the limitations you ran into?

Re: ChatGPT Search

#438

Post by topaz0 »

zo1 wrote: post #344
whizzter wrote: post #300

This is probably Google's Altavista moment, by making their results crappier by the year in search of Ad dollars everyone has felt that there is a potential for search to be better and once that becomes available they'll be in a continious game of catch-up. Yes, Google has their own AI divisions, tons of money and SEO is to blame for part of their crappiness. But they've also _explicitly_ focused on ad-dollars over a…

Google, even with all the trillions in additional productivity it has added to the world, has left the world at a net-negative. We can't even quantify it, and every person will tell you a different way in which it has impacted the world negatively. E.g. for me, how much Google (and silicon valley in general) have enabled twisted ideologies to flourish. All in search of ad-dollars by virtue of eyeballs on screens, at…

Now we get to see how OpenAI will do similar harm, more effectively and at much greater environmental cost.

Re: ChatGPT Search

#440

Post by jaybna »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #352
freediver wrote: post #241

Been thinking about this a lot [1]. Will this fundamentally change how people find and access information? How do you create an experience so compelling that it replaces the current paradigm? The future promised in Star Trek and even Apple's Knowledge Navigator [2] from 1987 still feels distant. In those visions, users simply asked questions and received reliable answers - nobody had to fact-check the answers ever. C…

Solving this problem will require us to stop using the entire web as a source of information. Anyone can write anything and put it up on the web, and LLMs have no way to distinguish truth from fantasy. Limiting responses to curated information sources is the way forward. Encyclopedias, news outlets, research journals, and so on. No, they're not infallible. But they're infinitely better than anonymous web sites.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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