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Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

quantamagazine.org

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Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#431

Post by nebben64 »

keepamovin wrote: post #188
babyent wrote: post #5

That was a fun read. What really stuck out to me was how R failed in a bunch of other subjects except math because he wasn’t interested in them. I know society and norms expect students to learn all these other subjects. But what if those just aren’t interesting to someone? I wonder how many geniuses we skip on because doing the chores of homework and getting through boring classes is busywork and memorization for th…

Unfortunately, the purpose of the education system at this stage of human civilization development is not the realization of individual potential or the creation of geniuses. Geniuses, however cool they may be, are not necessarily the most effective increase in unit production efficiency per person that you can create. The point of the education system is essentially to create workers that make the economy productive…

a very clear analysis, that's also very well written

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#432

Post by geodel »

theLiminator wrote: post #365
jjmarr wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2024 you are not getting into Waterloo CS with anything less than a 99% in your top6. And that's the entry level. If you really want to get in, you have to grind math competitions, clubs, etc. I go to a mid-tier university (Toronto Metropolitan University) and the admissions average for CS was 97% last year. The admissions process for universities in Ontario is a joke at this point. Imagine if students going to Ha…

Imo school grades should be disregarded entirely. We should bring back standardized testing, but make the ceiling much higher. Most people should score fairly low on it. This way, you can really see how good people are. At this point, people just get weeded out in university. This would also help the case of people like Ramanujan, he might score perfectly on the math portion of the standardized tests, and despite poo…

I am from country which has these standardized tests for all engineering, medicine, management and other competitive fields. The result is there is sprawling industry of "coaching institutes" which train kids for college admission exams. Those who are getting in through this system now are people whose parents can afford this increasingly expensive coaching.

So all mediocre kids with money have better chance than a brighter kid who couldn't afford coaching. Of course genius could still make it through this system but genius can also make it thru school grading system. There are enough programs to help out them.

Problem here is that barely above average students who wouldn't want to study all subjects per curriculum start to think of themselves as ignored geniuses crushed by the system.

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#433

Post by m2024 »

naikrovek wrote: post #33
kennedywm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn’t fully ban them. We just prescribe them to anyone a doctor decides has ADHD.

Not quite, but if one does not have ADHD or something similar, things like adderall have a very different effect than they do to someone who has ADHD. Your apparent disbelief in ADHD doesn’t make it imaginary, by the way. Consider yourself lucky that you do not have it; I am unemployable without medication.

[dead]

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#434

Post by skyde »

babyent wrote: post #5

That was a fun read. What really stuck out to me was how R failed in a bunch of other subjects except math because he wasn’t interested in them. I know society and norms expect students to learn all these other subjects. But what if those just aren’t interesting to someone? I wonder how many geniuses we skip on because doing the chores of homework and getting through boring classes is busywork and memorization for th…

Thanks a lot for writing that. I agree 100% with you.

But I always wondered how polymath like Leonard davinci and Isaac newton that are excellent in many area are possible.

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#435

Post by mangodrunk »

400thecat wrote: post #420
n4r9 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that the unconscious way he came about his theorems puts him in a different category to other famous names. But I wouldn't rank him as highly as Von Neumann. That man made groundbreaking results in the foundations of mathematics, pure and applied mathematics, early computer science, quantum mechanics, economics, and more. I think Von Neumann might arguably be the most significant genius of the 20th Century,…

yes, but the contrast is striking: Von Neumann had privileged upbringing and education Just imagine what what Ramanujan could have been if he grew up in Von Neumann household

Ramanujan wasn’t poor. He went to school and had access to many math books which he studied and was recognized as a child prodigy early on.

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#436

Post by jjmarr »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #392
jjmarr wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2024 you are not getting into Waterloo CS with anything less than a 99% in your top6. And that's the entry level. If you really want to get in, you have to grind math competitions, clubs, etc. I go to a mid-tier university (Toronto Metropolitan University) and the admissions average for CS was 97% last year. The admissions process for universities in Ontario is a joke at this point. Imagine if students going to Ha…

Are there not standardized exams in Ontario high school? When I grew up in Alberta standardized exams took up half your grade and those could not be fudged by your teacher. The exams were made by a small panel of teachers and nobody else knew the exam contents until the day of the exam. Everyone across the province takes the exam on the same day and time. Exams were proctored by people external to the school. Exams a…

Nope.

This is basically what Waterloo math competitions are, though. Except only Waterloo can see the results.

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#437

Post by theLiminator »

geodel wrote: post #432
theLiminator wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo school grades should be disregarded entirely. We should bring back standardized testing, but make the ceiling much higher. Most people should score fairly low on it. This way, you can really see how good people are. At this point, people just get weeded out in university. This would also help the case of people like Ramanujan, he might score perfectly on the math portion of the standardized tests, and despite poo…

I am from country which has these standardized tests for all engineering, medicine, management and other competitive fields. The result is there is sprawling industry of "coaching institutes" which train kids for college admission exams. Those who are getting in through this system now are people whose parents can afford this increasingly expensive coaching. So all mediocre kids with money have better chance than a b…

That's always going to be true regardless of whether there's standardized testing or not. Also, it still gives poor children a better chance. Do you think poor kids can afford to "polish" their application with a bunch of extra curricular activities that's typically required for top-tier schools? I think a truly difficult standardized test is still more fair than any other alternative.

The fact that there are a bunch of asian kids from poor socioeconomic backgrounds who make it into stuyvesant https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/05/233354/stuyvesant-a... is one example of how standardized testing can make it so that hard work can make the difference. I'm not saying that rich kids don't have an automatic leg up, but that's always going to be true regardless. Standardized testing (if anything) gives everyone a shot.

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#438

Post by __turbobrew__ »

jjmarr wrote: post #436
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there not standardized exams in Ontario high school? When I grew up in Alberta standardized exams took up half your grade and those could not be fudged by your teacher. The exams were made by a small panel of teachers and nobody else knew the exam contents until the day of the exam. Everyone across the province takes the exam on the same day and time. Exams were proctored by people external to the school. Exams a…

Nope. This is basically what Waterloo math competitions are, though. Except only Waterloo can see the results.

That seems like the real failing of the Ontario education system. Standardized testing is needed otherwise there is nothing stopping teachers from gaming the system. It also gives a good way to determine underserved/underperforming schools in order to direct improvement there.

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#439

Post by jjmarr »

geodel wrote: post #432
theLiminator wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imo school grades should be disregarded entirely. We should bring back standardized testing, but make the ceiling much higher. Most people should score fairly low on it. This way, you can really see how good people are. At this point, people just get weeded out in university. This would also help the case of people like Ramanujan, he might score perfectly on the math portion of the standardized tests, and despite poo…

I am from country which has these standardized tests for all engineering, medicine, management and other competitive fields. The result is there is sprawling industry of "coaching institutes" which train kids for college admission exams. Those who are getting in through this system now are people whose parents can afford this increasingly expensive coaching. So all mediocre kids with money have better chance than a b…

We have no standardized tests in Ontario. You just pay for expensive sports, extracurricular competitions, or private schools that provide the two.

Realistically, it's much easier for a person of average means to study for a standardized test than it is to buy the transport necessary to an international math/science/business/water polo competition.

It's fundamentally impossible for a person to do well in ice hockey if they cannot afford the hundreds of dollars in skates and protective equipment needed to play the game. Taking a standardized test is usually free. Does money give an advantage in both scenarios? Yes, but at least it's not an absolute barrier in the second.

Re: Math is still catching up to the genius of Ramanujan

#440

Post by keepamovin »

nebben64 wrote: post #431
keepamovin wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the purpose of the education system at this stage of human civilization development is not the realization of individual potential or the creation of geniuses. Geniuses, however cool they may be, are not necessarily the most effective increase in unit production efficiency per person that you can create. The point of the education system is essentially to create workers that make the economy productive…

a very clear analysis, that's also very well written

Thank you, kindly! I dictated it to ChatGPT which paragraphed but kept verbatim. I was on a roll! Hehehe :)
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