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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

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Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#431

Post by solatic »

jdietrich wrote: post #76

Providing these €49 tickets requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn, on top of already substantial subsidies for the rail industry. If we accept that it reduces carbon emissions by 6.7 million tonnes per year, then that works out to €447 per tonne. That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne. I do recognise that modal shift towards rail may have other positive externa…

I'm not sure you've fully accounted for the full carbon reduction here, which is not just the replacement of cars from the road but also the transition to a car-free lifestyle.

It gets people out of their cars because it's cheaper than petrol. When train tickets (in other countries) cost more than the cost of petrol for the journey, commuters who already sank the cost of buying a car + insurance ask why they should bother paying a premium for the train ticket when the cost of petrol will be cheaper.

Only after people transition to taking the train in the morning, do they then start to ask questions like "do I get value out of paying for insurance on a car I don't drive?" and start to make decisions like selling their cars. In this case the carbon reduction is not only the carbon reduction of the trips that would have been taken by train, but the carbon reduction from the use of the car altogether, and future car maintenance and replacement.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#432

Post by heftig »

panick21_ wrote: post #242
pjmlp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but doesn't make the Bahn more punctual, or reduce those comute times from 3h down to the 1h that is possible by car, not having to jump across four connections, with related delays and dropped connections.

The 49 Euro ticket is about local transportation, when you are talking about 3h you are talking about intercity transportation not covered by this ticket. Intercity travel has lots of punctuality problems but many of the local train operations and S-Bahn are often much superior. At least in places where I have been, like Karlsruhe, Berlin, Hamburg the local transport has been very good. Not everything in live is abou…

No, they're talking about the local connections that are covered by the ticket. They're that bad.

I've had similar experiences commuting into Cologne where it's 40 minutes by car or 2 hours by train, and that's without delays. In the rush hours it's 60 minutes by car. A missed train connection adds another half hour.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#433

Post by baxtr »

jdietrich wrote: post #76

Providing these €49 tickets requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn, on top of already substantial subsidies for the rail industry. If we accept that it reduces carbon emissions by 6.7 million tonnes per year, then that works out to €447 per tonne. That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne. I do recognise that modal shift towards rail may have other positive externa…

Additionally the ticket has not only shifted traffic but also led to an increase of trips in total.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#434

Post by noisem4ker »

fuzzy2 wrote: post #68
WJW wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegans? Veg[a..z1..9A..Z]ns? Are there any vegyns out there who object to being put on the meat/no-meat spectrum? Are you afraid HN will censure you if you spell out the complete word?

Really now. It's obviously veg.+ns: vegans and vegetarians.

veg(etari)?ans

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#435

Post by owisd »

theendisney4 wrote: post #139

The real puzzle imho is to get people to use public transport for the mostly empty route and time combinations. There are many of those for different reasons. Trains are so heavy it doesnt really cost or save anything if there are people inside or not. Its like restaurants throwing away food.

The UK offers aggressive discounts for advance purchasing tickets on long distance routes at quiet times, which works well.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#436

Post by CalRobert »

jdietrich wrote: post #76

Providing these €49 tickets requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn, on top of already substantial subsidies for the rail industry. If we accept that it reduces carbon emissions by 6.7 million tonnes per year, then that works out to €447 per tonne. That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne. I do recognise that modal shift towards rail may have other positive externa…

Fewer people in cars means fewer road deaths, safer streets for walking and cycling, quieter cities, less nimby obstructionism due to parking complaints, and less inhaled tyre participates, among other benefits.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#437

Post by locallost »

overflyer wrote: post #150

Which I as a German simply fail to fathom. The quality of our Deutsche Bahn is so bad I would never drive by train. The worst thing is that they are incapable to have their trains be on time. Whenever you travel there is an extremely high chance you will not arrive at your destination in time.

It's still more punctual than going by car. I can't remember any long distance car trip where I wasn't stuck in traffic and my trip was much longer than predicted by the navigation system.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#438

Post by CalRobert »

nsokolsky wrote: post #418
nerdbert wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you've instead created sprawl which has huge ongoing costs in terms of resource and energy use, as well as disconnecting people and communities.

> has huge ongoing costs in terms of resource and energy use TxDOT (government organization responsible for road maintenance) has a budget of $30B/year or about 10% of the total state's budget. Not that big of a deal for Texas.

Do they pay for the streets in low density suburbs or do local towns and cities? Also, water infra, electrical infra, etc.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#439

Post by bowsamic »

ben_w wrote: post #116
emaro wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised how positive you're writivg about the German public transport. The Deutsche Bahn doesn't have a good reputation in central Europe. I guess my frame of reference isn't average, given I live in Switzerland. Edit: the 49-euro ticket is great though!

As a UK citizen living in Berlin, I assure you that for all the cancellations and repair works, there's many places which look up to the German system. (I've also been to the USA, and (IMO) Amtrak makes the UK look good).

I visited the UK, which is my home, and the UK train system was amazing. Got multiple tight connections with zero delays. Far better than I’ve experienced living in Germany

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#440

Post by com2kid »

resonious wrote: post #314
postpawl wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Focusing on the cost-per-tonne for carbon reduction misses the broader value of railways. They're not just about reducing emission! They facilitate daily commutes, expand job opportunities, and help drive the economy. It’s a subsidy for businesses too.

Gp said they know about these other factors but doesn't know how to price them. Do you know a way?

Asthma from air pollution is calculatable.

Cancer reduction, road repairs, reduction in vehicle costs for tax payers, reduction in road fatalities, all of these can be added up.

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