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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

theverge.com

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Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#431

Post by johnnyanmac »

seydor wrote: post #377

Epic being the true antitrust commisionaire, having achieved more than entire groups of countries . The ruling may be on the extreme side but it's still good to see things moving back to a more open software world. Google is probably not afraid of it, they know that their users will keep using their services because they are better . (Just like how browser choice in the EU did not move the needle). Any rule enforcing…

>Google is probably not afraid of it, they know that their users will keep using their services because they are better .

ehh. We can discuss that all day. All I care is that any apps they don't allow should be able to find or make a platform that does allow it. Freedom doesn't mean that others will think like me and choose that freedom over familiarity.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#432

Post by huhkerrf »

jasoneckert wrote: post #292

The most interesting bit for me was "I won’t discuss the Apple case more than this brief outline since I’m ethically bound." This included a link to: https://www.theverge.com/authors/sean-hollister/archives/38 Did his wife sign an Apple NDA that applies to family members? Or does he not want to anger Apple out of fear of retaliation towards his wife? Either way, I don't see how the word "ethics" applies to either sit…

Yeah that's weird. Like, maybe they should have gotten someone else to do the story if the reporter couldn't have done a full job of it?

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#433

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

wolpoli wrote: post #191
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If apple literally hadn't won their own case 2 years ago you'd be right. If the company that literally doesn't allow users to install ANY application, yet alone a whole store, is in the clear, it's mind boggling that Google's situation is the one they took issue with. Apple literally has a higher market share in the US.

Android has the appearance of an open platform that could accommodate alternate app stores, and so the court comes by with an order to allow alternate app stores. IOS never had the appearance of an open platform, so the court does not have the opportunity to do the same thing. What's the lesson for future leaders in tech companies?

> What's the lesson for future leaders in tech companies?

The US judicial system makes as much sense as their tax code?

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#434

Post by frizlab »

wiseowise wrote: post #416
frizlab wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the iPhone a monopoly? You don’t want an iPhone you don’t buy an iPhone, there’s literally thousands of alternatives…

When it occupies half the market and life is increasingly dependent on your phone it’s no longer “don’t like - don’t buy”. How about “don’t like the changes - stop using Apple”? Huh? What’s stopping you from finding another Apple if there are thousands of alternatives?

There are no closed-ecosystem alternatives!! However there are thousands of alternatives to Apple. It is don’t like don’t buy, as literally NO ONE NOR ANY SITUATION FORCES YOU TO BUY AN iPhone. You need a PHONE, not an iPhone.

Also in what world does Apple have half the market?

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#436

Post by moomin »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #417
ethbr1 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absent first mover advantage with the iPhone, it's extremely difficult to see Apple ending up where it is, with a closed ecosystem.

this sounds close to: gosh, if they hadn't basically created the market for phones like this it's hard to see how they would be dominating the market for phones like this, given their behavior. because that's what first mover advantage is in this case. They created a market, in hardware - that's pretty difficult. regarding other posts saying Apple wasn't first mover in smartphones: Hey, I remember what those old thin…

I owned one. I barely used the keyboard. I barely used the internet connectivity. I even sat out the first iPhone. But I went into a store and tried one out and I knew I was getting the 3G when it came out. Phones may have had those features before, but they were strictly checkbox exercises. The iPhone was revolutionary.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#437

Post by madeofpalk »

mike_d wrote: post #22

Epic's "First Run" program does all the things they got mad at Apple and Google about. You don't have to pay any license fees for Unreal Engine if you use Epic exclusively for payments. They give you 100% revshare for 6 months if you agree to not ship your game on any other app store. Let's not kid ourselves, Epic never cared about consumer choice or a fair playing field, they only want the ability to profit without…

When Epic ships a phone or computer with the Epic Store as the only optional for installing apps or games, then we can talk.

Epic Store on Windows can't be accused of this monopolistic behaviour because Windows is not locked down and alternatives to the platform's distribution exists. Epic Store is one of those beneficiaries.

Windows and Epic's deals demonstrates there exists a market with competition and choices for developers and users. Developers can chose to take Epic up on their deal. Users can chose to use the Epic Store or not. The courts ruled that this choice does not effectively exist on Android because of all the dealings that Google did to prevent competition.

The whole point of this lawsuit is that Google suppresses alternative pricing models in the Play Store. You can not like a proposed alternative payment structure (as a developer), or not want to use Epic Store on Android. It would be great if the market could decide on what it wants here, instead of Google preventing any competition.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#438

Post by rTX5CMRXIfFG »

orourke wrote: post #269
ethbr1 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absent first mover advantage with the iPhone, it's extremely difficult to see Apple ending up where it is, with a closed ecosystem.

I’ve been working with React Native and Flutter and every time I have to interact directly with iOS/Android, I find that Android is much easier to work with and feels much better designed from a software/api/config perspective. Where Apple wins, however, imho is in hardware. The iPhone is a masterpiece and users can tell, even ~16 years in. I feel that when Apple finally chokes on hardware, or some player in the Andr…

It’s highly unlikely for Apple to choke on hardware given their cash.

And as someone who’s done native for both, Android’s native SDK is a mess that even Android devs actually hate it.

Meanwhile, iOS’ SDK is incredibly exhaustive and coherent. I don’t know what your basis is for “better designed software”, but being able to fork a desktop OS from 20 years prior, make it into a mobile OS, then to a tablet OS, then to a watch and a headset OS, and then have billions of users on it all and make a trillion-dollar company out of it⸺does that not sound like good engineering to you? All while the competition can hardly build anything that actually lasts.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#439

Post by zelphirkalt »

Maybe stores should simply be uncoupled with mobile OS. Imagine a store, that has apps for various OS, run independently from the OS' vendor, Google, Apple, whoever. Then we wouldn't have all the issues with the vendors behaving like dictators about what can be on _their_ stores, because it is no longer their stores. Only question: How does it get financed and maintained, if not big tech is behind it?

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#440

Post by concinds »

rezonant wrote: post #249
ssl-3 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a court of public opinion. This isn't a popularity contest; they're not running for public office or something here. In real court (with real lawyers and real judges), precedent often matters (often, it matters quite a lot). Informing the court of [what may be] meaningful precedent is important; without this deliberate informative step, the court might not know about it at all. The court cannot take anything…

I'm not worried that Google forgot to tell the judge about the other ruling. Pretty sure they are competent enough to try.

They were not allowed to.
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