Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla • Hacker News Board

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#431

Post by BytesAndGears » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 4:29 AM UTC

refulgentis wrote: post #369

c22 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly I'd rather just get a ticket when I speed by a traffic camera than rely on the discretion of a random police officer who might just be looking for a pretense to search my vehicle or hassle me in some other way.

Jaywalking, to my ear, is a similarly universal & easy example for this not being universally desirable.

Where I lived in Europe (as an American), jaywalking wasn’t illegal. They didn’t even really consider it weird. After all, you’re just walking.

In fact, if you were in the street and a car hit you, the car driver had to prove that it was unavoidable to miss you, otherwise the driver was at fault.

It was also illegal to intentionally block traffic as a pedestrian unless you were at a crosswalk. But there was no law that made it illegal to cross the street anywhere.

Seems like the best of all worlds. And it’s easy to fully enforce the whole “blocking traffic is illegal” part.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#432

Post by hypercube33 » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 4:33 AM UTC

xyst wrote: post #138

aftbit wrote: post #122

Creepy stuff. Maybe we ought not to constantly record everything happening around us all the time.

NSA has been collecting domestic and foreign data for a long time now. There’s even a dedicated data warehouse/data center in Utah ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center )

Early 2000s there was an unveiling of ARGUS-IS and if we have that and commercial companies know when daughters are pregnant before they tell their parents then stuff like the TV series Person of Interest seems all too plausible at least as far as mass surveillance AI exists. I doubt there is a Batman squad doing good on that level of technology out there hidden from society but there may be a military and CIA like op behind it.

There was tech to watch for what things you pick up and put back or dwell on in stores with cameras and heat maps and loyalty card tracking before 2005. it's not far off to get a person some computer thinks should be investigated based on patterns and data out there publicly.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#433

Post by 1997cui » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 4:44 AM UTC

threecheese wrote: post #273

harmmonica wrote: post #247

As a somewhat regular user of Waymo, these types of conversations seem like they're going to be more and more in the (sorry!) rearview mirror because we won't own the car nor the cameras that are recording the world as we "drive" around. That's not to say that we should give up fighting for some level of privacy even when we don't own the cars, but seems more likely that legislation would be passed that forces the ve…

I am hoping for an urban camouflage fashion revolution as a response to more pervasive monitoring: https://www.axios.com/2019/09/07/fooling-facial-recognition-... Public access to object recognition models may be important.

Just FYI, it is illegal to mask your face in New York https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna168590

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#434

Post by tomcam » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 4:45 AM UTC

kshmir wrote: post #393

harmmonica wrote: post #247

As a somewhat regular user of Waymo, these types of conversations seem like they're going to be more and more in the (sorry!) rearview mirror because we won't own the car nor the cameras that are recording the world as we "drive" around. That's not to say that we should give up fighting for some level of privacy even when we don't own the cars, but seems more likely that legislation would be passed that forces the ve…

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Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#435

Post by freejazz » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 5:03 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #79

freejazz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting how none of the risks you cite are an increase into their insurance premiums. In fact, what you point to are completely irrational thoughts that have nothing to do with the risks presented by undertaking those activities. It doesn't matter if speeds are set low or irrationally, the fee for a ticket is the same as is the insurance premium increase. Same with being better than another driver, it doesn't mat…

>In fact, what you point to are completely irrational thoughts that have nothing to do with the risks presented by undertaking those activities. It doesn't matter if speeds are set low or irrationally, the fee for a ticket is the same as is the insurance premium increase. I can't tell whether you wanted an opportunity to rant about unjust speed limits in your area, or are trying to get in a smug "well ackushally \u{1…

>Thinking "speeding" and "driving like a complete maniac" means driving 1 mile over the speed limit in an artificially low speed limit zone is about the least charitable way of interpreting that statement.

I have no idea how you came up with the hypothetical of the speed limits, and then went further to assume I'm making the argument that driving 1MPH over the limit was a good example. That's a ridiculous approach to this conversation.

>Again, I can't tell whether you're trying to be snarky. Being a better driver (however it's defined) might not fix your car when it gets into a crash, but I don't think anyone doubts that a professional driver is going to be able to avoid more accidents than the 90 year old granny that only drives every sunday to go to church, when put in the same situations.

But your example wasn't a professional driver, it was just someone who thinks they are a better driver. You were talking about people who were underestimating risks... how would that apply to a professional driver?

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#436

Post by freejazz » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 5:03 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #50

freejazz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you don't live in a city.

As long as we're trading non sequiturs: when you think about why you don't want your phone to behave this way, you'll understand why I don't want my car to.

It's not a non sequitur, it's the only context in which your comment could ever make sense. Even then, most likely is objectively wrong.

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#437

Post by conradev » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 5:16 AM UTC

harmmonica wrote: post #247

As a somewhat regular user of Waymo, these types of conversations seem like they're going to be more and more in the (sorry!) rearview mirror because we won't own the car nor the cameras that are recording the world as we "drive" around. That's not to say that we should give up fighting for some level of privacy even when we don't own the cars, but seems more likely that legislation would be passed that forces the ve…

Can’t I just buy a car that lets me drive it but also can drive itself?

I can already today add functionality to cars with after-market hardware: https://comma.ai/?

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#438

Post by yaomtc » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 5:23 AM UTC

1997cui wrote: post #433

threecheese wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am hoping for an urban camouflage fashion revolution as a response to more pervasive monitoring: https://www.axios.com/2019/09/07/fooling-facial-recognition-... Public access to object recognition models may be important.

Just FYI, it is illegal to mask your face in New York https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna168590

No, that's Nassau County, New York. Not the entirety of New York. Says it right there in the article you linked. There's also a lawsuit challenging it, also linked at the end of the article.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-lawsuit-challen...

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#439

Post by Terr_ » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 5:23 AM UTC

blahedo wrote: post #424

Terr_ wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on what would be bypassed by "patrolling?" If the government was really contracting something out, then there's an argument to be made that it's on behalf of the government therefore it's government action and therefore it may be prohibited. If nothing else, I'm pretty confident that my 3rd-amendment rights to not have soldiers crashing on my couch is safe from whatever my neighbor does with their d…

> Can you elaborate on what would be bypassed by "patrolling?" Well, we saw this play out in the last couple years in Texas—they set up their laws so that abortion enforcement was performed by civilians (i.e. not cops, not the government), specifically to throw sand in the gears of any countervailing judicial efforts (i.e. making it impossible to sue anyone to force them to stop it, because it's just a game of whack-…

> in Texas—they set up their laws so that abortion enforcement was performed by civilians

A law [0] which, IMO, is a flat-out travesty of justice, kind of like if Texas Republicans had passed a law saying: "No private citizen shall be guilty of assault or liable in a civil trial for striking someone who spoke on the Ministry of Truth's totally voluntary prohibited ideas list."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Heartbeat_Act

Re: Did your car witness a crime? Bay Area police may be coming for your Tesla

#440

Post by nox101 » Sun, Sep 01, 2024, 5:37 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #142

nox101 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that the police have limited resources. At the same time, the better they do their job the less of it there will be to do as word spreads that you won't get away with it. It could be arguably be much more efficient to take in user video, voluntarily offered, and prosecute all easily provable crimes and violations.

> At the same time, the better they do their job the less of it there will be to do Institutionally, the police have very little interest in there being less perception of a need for police, that would result in them getting less resource, less deference, and more oversight and accountability.

that doesn't seem to have worked out for them.