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Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

mono-project.com

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Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#431

Post by MobiusHorizons »

RadiozRadioz wrote: post #303
kelnos wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Microsoft has finally realized that its animus toward projects like Wine and pre-acquisition Mono was ultimately unproductive, and a net negative for Microsoft itself. I still don't trust MS's motives in general, but I think they at least recognize that Wine/Proton helps make the Win32 and DirectX APIs a sort of de-facto cross-platform standard when it comes to things like desktop gaming, and that this is a g…

> Wine/Proton helps make the Win32 and DirectX APIs a sort of de-facto cross-platform standar There are perfectly fine _actual_ cross-platform standards like Vulcan and OpenGL. If your goal is cross-platform, making a Windows app that you hope will be converted well enough is a strange way to approach it.

And yet, Linux gaming is largely dxvk and proton.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#432

Post by Peanuts99 »

smackeyacky wrote: post #283
stackskipton wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.Net SRE here, all our .Net REST APIs are deployed on Kubernetes. Devs are still mostly on Windows because Visual Studio. I've worked with Azure team, all greenfield they do for Azure goes on Linux as well. Windows Server is pretty much dead to Microsoft though it will be continue to be supported and released because $$$.

It's been very hard to explain to my organisation that Windows Server is dead. We haven't deployed a system to it in two years, everything is some kind of dockerised linux thing but the "we're a Microsoft shop" idea prevails. In the end we decided to just let the management think what they want. I've been more of a Unix person for 40 years but I kind of miss the "good" versions of Microsoft Server - in the 1990s / ea…

Not sure what you've used it for but Powershell is about the best thing to come out of Microsoft in the last decade. Very useful and extendable - useful anywhere bash is. It's also the scripting engine of choice for Azure and Entra ID too which is far from Windows Server Land.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#433

Post by stcroixx »

Another perfect execution of embrace(Microsoft became the steward of the Mono Project when it acquired Xamarin), extend(Microsoft maintains a modern fork of Mono runtime in the dotnet/runtime repo and has been progressively moving workloads to that fork), extinguish(we recommend that active Mono users and maintainers of Mono-based app frameworks migrate to .NET) for anyone who thought MS had actually changed since the bad old days.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#434

Post by mickmcq »

bmacho wrote: post #356
prewett wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gratuitous software" would be excessive and unnecessary software. Which I think a lot of commercial (particularly "news") websites qualify for, and "modern" websites in general. NPM makes it easy to just install something, which requires all kinds of other things, which duplicate each other, etc. Strangely enough, I think the LaTex distribution qualifies, too. I tried to install it recently, and it wanted 1 GB of di…

> Strangely enough, I think the LaTex distribution qualifies, too. I tried to install it recently, and it wanted 1 GB of disk space! That's multiple times the size of the entire system disk when LaTeX was created... There is the TinyTeX distribution, which is smaller. (Despite its name, it isn't tiny, or small, or medium in size, but it is also large. But smaller than the default LaTeX distribution with all the possi…

My impression is that TinyTeX downloads required packages on the fly and can be quite tiny if you don’t use many packages.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#435

Post by hakanderyal »

MStrehovsky wrote: post #343
hakanderyal wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s great for web application backends. Switched to it after 10+ years of Python. Couldn’t be happier. Binaries will be huge tho compared to Go. I’ve a few CLIs that I that I my customers need to use, I’m planning to rewrite them in Go for this reason.

Is AOT compiling your binaries [1] an option for you? The starting size of AOT compiled C# can beat Go in size [2] and from there it really depends on what you do and how you do it. Some simple ASP.NET server with https and routing can comfortably fit under 10 MB and there are compilation options that can help optimize further [3]. [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/dotnet/core/deploying/native-aot... [2] https://github…

I looked into it but some libraries I've been using wasn't compatible with AOT. I'll check it again when I have more time. Thanks.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#436

Post by zelcon »

Atotalnoob wrote: post #318
zelcon wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Create an ASP.NET Core web server embedded in a binary bundled with Electron and a React frontend. (jk)

That is how electron.NET basically works

Kind of suspected people might actually be doing that. “You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension.”

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#437

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #326
pjmlp wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get the push of Blazor everywhere instead of its original WebAssembly target. It is like the Web folks, that don't get anything else, are now pushing where .NET goes, mostly since .NET is now under Azure org chart. I have done Web and native since "forever", not everything has to be for everything.

Yes, .net is for azure cloud webapps, that's how modern software is made. Then wrap them in electron to make them native.

WebView2 would probably be the way to go, now... at least for Windows as the target.

https://www.electronjs.org/blog/webview2/

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#438

Post by Atotalnoob »

zelcon wrote: post #436
Atotalnoob wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is how electron.NET basically works

Kind of suspected people might actually be doing that. “You may live to see man-made horrors beyond your comprehension.”

To be honest, if you use AOT you can get the .net component under 100mb with trimming so it isn’t that bad…

If you cared about disk or memory usage you wouldn’t use electron, anyway.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#439

Post by sebazzz »

zbowling wrote: post #31

I worked on Mono a lot back in the early 2000s (back in the SVN days before it moved to Git, even). This move makes a lot of sense. Things evolved a lot over the years. Mono's legacy goals, which are to be a portable CLR (.NET) runtime for platforms that Microsoft didn't care about, don't make much sense today. Mono made a lot of sense for running places where full .NET didn't, like in full AOT environments like on t…

Mono also had (limited?) support for ASP.NET non-Core. I wonder how many companies actually used that.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#440

Post by neonsunset »

kuschku wrote: post #425
neonsunset wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No and it's not even close. Kotlin only has a single Jetbrains Compose (I presume Kotlin Multiplatform is the same thing). It is also subject to the quirks and specifics of JVM implementations, build-systems and package management. Kotlin native partially bypasses this, but its performance is a factor of 0.1-0.01x vs OpenJDK (if there is new data - please let me know). This is very unlike NativeAOT which is on averag…

Which rich cross-platform GUI frameworks are you talking about? Win32? Silverlight/Blend? XAML? MAUI? They're all windows only. Gtk? Qt? Sure, they exist, but they're ancient and limited to long outdated paradigms. I don't know if you can get QtQuick with KDE Kirigami to work on .NET, otherwise that might be one option. Kotlin Multiplatform is btw a solution for building the same code for kotlin native, JVM and web t…

There are more than 10 sibling and gp comments that exhaustively address the GUI and other questions :)

> That's a massive advantage over the arcane package management and build systems of .NET. Very few languages ever achieve a build and package management system as mature and usable as the Java ecosystem. I've been waiting for 12 years for .NET to match Java's ecosystem, and it's still not there yet.

If you want to sell me on "advantages" of invoking Gradle or Maven over

    dotnet new web
    dotnet run
    curl localhost:port
or

    dotnet new console --aot
    echo 'Console.WriteLine($"Right now is {DateTime.Now}");' > Program.cs
    dotnet publish -o {here goes the executable}
or

    dotnet add package {my favourite package}
I suppose you would actually need 12 years of improvements given how slow if ever these things get resolved in Java land.

Also, what's up with Oracle suing companies for using incorrect JDK distribution that happens to come with hidden license strings attached?

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