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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

robkhenderson.com

431–440 of 600 posts

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could hire your landlord to do all the chores and upkeep for your house. I'm sure he would do it for cheaper than your rent. How many times has he been around this year to fix things for you?

My landlord is excellent IMO. They always fix any issues I have usually by the next day. I can't say I have had a ton of issues though. But I mean stuff like mowing the lawn, shoveling the snow, cleaning out the gutters, and various other repairs and such that happen over time. That is what I mean by I value my time, and those things can take a considerable amount of time. Also my rent is only ~$1000 per month for a…

Sure, but is it worth $1000 per month to have the lawn mowed and snow shoveled? Repairs and improvements are not a service he does for the renter, it is something that he does to keep or increase the value of his real estate investment.

Your $1000 per month rent can only be compared with the interest part of a mortgage you'd get for the exact same housing you are paying rent for. If the rent is less than the interest would be, then yes, you are better off renting. You also have to be able to invest any money that would have gone to a mortgage to make more than the price of your rent in profit every month, because that is your loss each month on rent. It is achievable if you're shrewd and can stay cold headed. Compounding effects help you, but you're also vulnerable to rent hikes. If you stay for more than a few years with the same landlord, they will catch on to that you have a stable situation and are saving/investing, and they won't be able to sleep at night thinking about all that juicy income that you're saving and investing, that could belong to them.

I've shoveled snow and cleaned gutters, even put on a new coat of paint a few times. It is not worth paying somebody $1000 per month for that. That's a salary for somebody working 50% of full time just taking care of maintenance on the unit you're renting. You're also comparing renting a smaller place vs buying a bigger house. That's also part of the problem. Landlords have hogged all of the apartments and smaller housing in order to extract the lifeblood of young workers, when such units would also be available for sale and not rent in a healthy environment.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#432
post #108

We expect young men to grow up and become "husband material". Due to various changes (standards for husbands rising, economic opportunity diminishing), this goal has become clearly unreachable for many. I would opt out if I was a poor young man today, and focus on enjoying the small pleasures (drinking with my buddies, playing PS5). The hill they are expected to climb is ludicrous, and I am not surprised they respond…

Damn. This is the first I’m hearing I wasn’t allowed to have a job AND play PS5. I’ll have to rectify this at once. What are the rising standards though? Not beating your wife?

> What are the rising standards though? Not beating your wife?

Unironically yes. It is much easier for women to leave their marriage than it has historically been. This has lead to rising standards for how husbands need to behave.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you're not tearing down 10 units to build 5, more supply is more supply. Doesn't matter nearly as much whether they are luxury or basic.

Not if the investors are willing to warehouse units to keep prices high, rather than lower prices in order to sell. If prices of luxury units are high enough, you're talking a significant percentage of units that can just be held while investors still break even or profit. Why lock in a loss or low profit (and, in doing so, hurt the value of your other holdings)?

Warehousing can work to an extent, but eventually there is enough supply to overpower it. Again, the answer is to just keep building. There's also very little evidence that it is happening. NYC has vacancy rates below 3%, its extremely difficult to get much lower than that.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#434
post #99

Many have not yet squared up to the fact that society itself is an unprofitable boondoggle that requires massive moral radicalization and willingness to participate in odd, polarizing institutions and practices. We live inside the semi-decayed skeleton of a society built by deeply religious people who believed that society should be built and maintained because that is the moral thing to do . They weren't only motiva…

You also have to look at much of the impetus behind how long held religious morals were devised.

Millenia of human suffering. Wars. Oppression. Exploitation.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#435
post #380
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is two wrongs is worse than one; you're never going to solve discrimination against one group by discriminating against another, for example.

What discrimination of which groups are we talking about?

Presumably it's a postulate, and applies in all reasonable cases. The generalization was given as an example of a larger truism.

To give a specific example: Solving discrimination against Maronites by instituting a system of power sharing which discriminated against Shiites and Druze set Lebanon up for failure. Can you think of an instance where reactionary counter-discrimination solved an issue long-term? Why be skeptical of the assertion of "two wrongs don't make a right"? It's generally observable in all cases that retributive "justice" simply creates resentment, deepens issues and erodes belief and trust in social institutions.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#436

Something that intend to write on someday that I'll excerpt here: the phenomenon of "young men with nothing to do" is driven by a society-wide misallocation of capital that is itself driven by wealth inequality - specifically, old people and elites who command too large a proportion of wealth. This concentration of wealth in the hands of a cohort that is less diverse, and has less diverse interests, than the general…

This isn't much of a new phenomenon. There are many examples in European history at least where a monarch puts all of his time and energy into patronizing the arts, causing his kingdom to fall into ruin. Charles V's reign of Spain was plagued with uprisings of disgruntled peasants. Certainly worth looking into for your full write-up. "There is nothing new under the sun" is a great idiom to call upon to back up an argument.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of gay people and autistic people in relationships. Get off the internet and touch grass.

Ah yes. Whenever someone asks me what can we do about poverty I'll just reply "I know plenty of people with lucrative jobs, get off the internet and touch grass". We've been telling people for years already that them being lonely is their personal failure, not some systematic problem, yet people, on average, keep getting even more lonely. What makes you think that continuing to present loneliness as a personal failur…

And on a societal level it's an interesting philosophical question, but waiting around and hoping that something external comes along to magically fix the problem that you're experiencing personally isn't a plan for success. That feeling of loneliness isn't going to go away sitting at home, playing another single player video game by yourself, it's going to go away by socializing with people, in some sort of fashion.

It's gonna be cringe. it's gonna be awkward. it'll be fine, you'll survive.

Poverty is a wholly different problem, with different solutions, and comparing poverty to loneliness isn't doing you any favors. If we're gonna play that game, how about comparing it to obesity? society bears some responsibility for McDonald's, and for not giving good education on nutrition, but the reality there is that there are some wonderful new drugs to help with that problem. even with the new drugs and before them, at the end of the day, it still is a personal decision on whether or not to do something about the problem.

so the government isn't going to come in and start forcing people to attend friendship-making ceremonies. the solution to your loneliness is pushing yourself to go out and find people. don't go off trying to fix the systemic societal level problem for everybody, just solve for one. fortunately you don't have to wait around for a magic anti-lonliness drug to be research and formulated and then undergo trials before approval by the FDA. the drug for loneliness is alcohol. go do a lubricating amount of it around other people.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#438
There's an elephant in the Argument: Why don't women adopt these elite ideals and leave their kids? We should at least have an explanation why either nothing significant changed in the last 100+ years (a stretch), or something else that is counteracting said elite ideals. To put another way, why did the elite woman act against her own publicly professed Expectation? [0]

Another hint there's something amiss is the flawed premise. Men are not doing nothing! I see a whole bunch of consumption. Here is one of the author's citations:

> Edin and Kefalas describe the behavior of young males in low-income neighborhoods:

>> [...] Young mothers regularly rail against young fathers who squander too much of their earnings on alcohol, marijuana, new stereo components, computer accessories, expensive footwear, or new clothing, while the needs of the family are, in their view, not adequately met. [... Amy] had a boyfriend who worked steadily but insisted on spending on selfish pursuits. This is what eventually broke the young couple up.

All those are true, but try to tell that to every one of those Industries. If you were the CEO of a shoe company men spending on food is money not spent on your shoes. Why have your primary consumer spend less with at your company, even if that benefits the broader social fabric? It is in your material interests (one could argue your "Fiduciary Responsibility") to drive spending towards your company, which is why you pay the Marketing Department the big bucks.

If I were to throw out a guess, I suspect the difference is between Expectation and Ideal, or the difference between external and internal motivation, respectively. You can't form a cohesive self-identity from constantly shifting external expectations (ask your therapist), it must be stitched together from already free-floating desires/values/signifiers of society. Where I think the author gets close is how society influences how and what to Desire [1].

[0]: For those who read Cialdini's Influence this is an apparently powerful violation of the Commitment to Consistency, which hints something deeper is going on. Her deliberately going out of her way to correct the interviewer's view of her perhaps speaks to a greater commitment to another consistency?

[1]: https://iep.utm.edu/lacweb/#SH2b

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#439

Man I hate when people use the phrase “broken home” unironically. My parents divorced when I was young and I can assure the writer that both of my homes were always whole. Do you know what breaks a home? Two people who no longer want to live together being forced to cohabitate because of regressive notions of the what makes an effective family. Definitely preferred swapping weekends with each parent to having to list…

same here. although my parents lived so far apart that regular visits with the other parent were not possible, i actually felt that them being separated so far was a good thing considering how the two of them just could not get along. the distance did not hurt my own relationship with my absent parent, nor have i ever felt guilty for their separation. neither parent felt the need to talk bad about the other.

that said, living with a single parent did plenty of damage to us children, so in that sense we most certainly had a broken home. but the cure for that would probably have been for our parent to find a new partner (which they tried but didn't succeed in because any potential candidates were not interested in children), but most certainly not for my parents to get back together (and i know they tried. from first separation to final divorce it took more than half a decade, and that's probably the time where we kids suffered the most).

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#440
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chronic pain (pvps) has a 1-2% incidence rate, and can be treated in many cases. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5503923/ Options for women include childbearing, which bears risk of severe medical complications and death; hormonal birth control, which is mood-altering, causes weight gain, unsatisfactory sex; IUDs with risk of chronic pain; and condoms which always seem to magically slip off.

1-2% of having permanent pain between my legs sounds like an ENORMOUS amount

You aren’t escaping life without pain.

I torn my quad last year, and then one of my kids did a butt stomp right on that knee joint as I was lying on the ground. Any minor residual vasectomy pain is the least of my concerns.

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