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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

431–440 of 599 posts

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#431
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally a question of life or death. If Ukraine surrenders, that could very well be the end of the country and ethnic/cultural identity. Look up what happens to Ukrainians captured by the Russian army - rape (irrespective of gender), torture, starvation, daily beatings, etc. Russia has kidnapped hundreds of thousands of kids too. Surrender is not an option. Unfortunately, everyone (men and women included) must…

Are you in Ukraine doing your duty? If you are not Ukrainian they do take volunteers. Surrender is an option, none of those things is worse than death. I would not make that trade. If the Ukrainian men want to stop it they can still volunteer, so can anyone else. And it looks like they will lose the war anyway, so they’ll have to surrender anyway except now after a huge amount of death and destruction. Ukraine is hea…

Your kind of thinking leads to societal decay like the kind seen at Uvalde. Each of the 374 cops chose to prioritize their own wellbeing over collective interests, ultimately leading to 19 kids and 2 teachers getting killed despite overwhelming odds against the perpertrator.

And there are many things worse than death. Do you know how Russian combat medics are trained? Instructors pick a prisoner, cut off their palm, then instruct the medic on how to stop the bleeding. Then they cut the arm off up to elbow, teach how to stop the bleeding, and repeat it until the prisoner has no limbs left. Stories like these are a common occurrence. The number of documented war crimes has exceeded 100 000, and investigators don't even have access to most of occupied land.

It is natural that no-one wants to take the risk of ending up in the situation I described, but at the same time, someone has to take the risk, otherwise Russians will simply exterminate Ukraine and Ukrainians as they exist today. Like at Uvalde, more people will die as a result.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#432

A lot of special forces have been doing what we used to call "door kicking" in the last few wars. Lots of explosive breaches, firing weapons and throwing grenades indoors. I'm sure this is the main contributing factor. The percussive force of firing and explosives indoors is horrible and I say this as an ex artillery officer, so I'm used to chest-breaking bangs from firing big artillery guns

Any source for this?

Artillery was around for 500 years and shell shock was hugely discussed for past 100 years.

There is much better corellation with divorce. Soldiers returns home with PTSD, only to have their house, children, savings and pension stollen. Because they were not around to guard it! And they may get thrown into prison for being too poor!

Shell shock is very convinient excuse, when victims do not get proper recovery!

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#433
the way people understand mood and suicide is completely wrong. i have had very unusual bipolar disorder symptoms in the past and it allowed me to experience extreme depression one day and then good mood the next day. i have experienced depression that is so bad that it was difficult to physically move. i remember not being able to stand up from being seated in a chair. this is what i consider to be basically the far side of the spectrum of symptoms — the worst that depression can be. its absolutely deadly because at this point you are effectively experiencing unbearable pain as well as, for some reason, having trouble moving. it hurts to think about the future. every moment is agony. people in this situation kill themselves to end the pain most of all and because they feel trapped. and also because in this state of mind you are unable to work, support yourself or even have relationships. but the real insight is whats next.

luckily i only experienced those lows for a period of time. and some days i would be lifted out of it and feel perfectly normal. this experience is what made me realize what almost nobody realizes: that there is no situation where a healthy person will feel the desire to kill themselves. this is because mood is an illusion. i would go from having this entire world view that my life is hopeless and being completely lost and almost instantly switch over to having lots of things on my mind and looking forward to many things and wanting to get on with life. having a normal mood involves being blind to negative things as much as being depressed involves seeing bad things that arent bad. the human mind is designed to translate sensory input into action by any means and when this system breaks down it weirdly feels painful and makes you want to kill yourself. i think the breakdown of this system can be isolated to a domain, concept or situation or be global. and i think that high stress can cause this effect through inflammatory dysregulation or some other stress pathology giving the incorrect impression that suicide is a reaction to stress. if there were a pill to stop the root cause of depression, nobody would ever kill themselves except for terminally ill people. and just because someone killed themself doesnt mean that their life was especially hard, hopeless or messed up or whatever. it just means they were sick. thats it. and yet every time theres a suicide, all people talk about are the circumstances surrounding the suicide even though they probably are indirectly involved at best!

when i was in those deep depressions i would connect the dots of all the things about my life into a causal web and would be convinced myself that it was the circumstances of my life were the reason i felt depressed. but then within hours that mental framework would disappear completely and i would feel fine. its an extremely powerful illusion. thats why the word trapped resonates so powerfully with people who have been through it. the illusion makes you feel trapped.

this realization has made me basically immune to depression. i recognize mood disfunction immediately now and i have coached myself to remember its an illusion. i am sure that i have experienced significant mood dysfunction in the past, and that most people have, and gotten lost in it simply because i didnt understand what was going on. i think that this is a huge component of the decision to commit suicide: people start experiencing pain, they think its intrinsic to their life situation, they get lost in it, and they would hold on if only they had some context. i wish there was a way to induce severe depression temporarily to show people what it is and educate them so they could not go into it completely blind when the time comes. that would really help people.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#434
Wonder if something similar happens to people who have exposure to drilling sound for significantly continuous amount of time (few hours a day). I often see construction/roadworks crew around my area without ear protection while drilling is going on.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#435
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If going to war front as an infantryman were a privilege, we'd see the likes of Hollywood actors and actresses volunteer for the front as well as any wealthy folks and any other privileged folks --but they rarely do --this indicates it is not a privilege, but rather something the poor and of lesser means, those whose lives are worth less are sent to the front. It's violence, it's abuse. Sometimes someone has to endur…

Of course it's not a privilege. But if you're saying women aren't good at it, that women need to be protected, that's misogyny. It's like saying women can't receive the death penalty because they are not mentally sound to be held responsible for their actions, which was a real misogynistic argument at one point. Misandry would be saying men must be sent to war instead of women because they are inferior, or because th…

There's nothing misogynistic being said here. You're stretching the word to cover situations it just doesn't apply to.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#436
post #427

Qualifier: Former US special operations operator that served in multiple wars. My anecdotal take is there are many ways that shock and trauma can accumulate through training and war that are far beyond the minimal effects of an M4. Firearms: While the primary weapons systems are the M4 and side arm (pistol), there are many weapons systems utilized by special operations such as sniper rifles, crew serve weapons, and n…

The article links to a USSOCOM-funded study. In your opinion, are they (as a whole) seriously concerned with mitigating this issue or is it just checking the box? The worry is this can be similar to the buried diesel tank issue contaminating water, which was known for decades but seemed to be ignored (possibly out of liability concerns).

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#437
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's literally a question of life or death. If Ukraine surrenders, that could very well be the end of the country and ethnic/cultural identity. Look up what happens to Ukrainians captured by the Russian army - rape (irrespective of gender), torture, starvation, daily beatings, etc. Russia has kidnapped hundreds of thousands of kids too. Surrender is not an option. Unfortunately, everyone (men and women included) must…

Are you in Ukraine doing your duty? If you are not Ukrainian they do take volunteers. Surrender is an option, none of those things is worse than death. I would not make that trade. If the Ukrainian men want to stop it they can still volunteer, so can anyone else. And it looks like they will lose the war anyway, so they’ll have to surrender anyway except now after a huge amount of death and destruction. Ukraine is hea…

> Surrender is an option, none of those things is worse than death

Being tortured, raped and beaten until you die is not worse than death? Beg to disagree.

> And it looks like they will lose the war anyway

Highly unlikely. Russia is bleeding men they can afford to lose for now, but don't in the long term. Russia has absolutely no way of achieving victory, so by definition Ukraine can't lose. It can't really win either, because Russia as it is today cannot accept defeat.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#438
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.50 cal sniper rifles and shoulder launched weapons like Carl Gustaf, the M72 LAW or the AT4 can. Firing a rifle may or may not cause shock waves that are strong enough. If you have been firing a whole day you definitely feel funny in the head.

How much do special forces use weapons significantly more specialized than the standard issue M4? CoD suggests that every operator is slinging a sniper rifle and some highly customized exotic small batch assault rifle; however, I'm guessing that's likely just to make the games more exciting.

HS friend of mine was SF so this info is OEF/OIF-era information and could very likely be different today. You are not going to be able to just pick whatever weapon you want, but you are going to have a wide array of training and be able to pick something more specialized to the mission, whereas for the most part if you're some random infantry grunt you just use your rifle for everything. But if you're a random infantry grunt your M4 is going to be a good rifle for all your missions - you're not going to need a silenced SMG/PCC or something that can reach out 800 yards. Sidearms are similar, it's not carte blanche but among what is available you can carry whatever you are comfortable with within the scope of the mission.

You're much more likely to see SF guys with short-barreled rifles, pistol-caliber carbines, suppressors on everything, etc. For all the (justified) complaints about military overspending, there just aren't the resources or training available to give every rifleman a suppressor.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a rather scathing study on it here. [1] In short the government's own internal investigations realized the obvious answer, a mass hysteria event, was the most likely culprit. But politics got involved and so then they classified reports mentioning this, and released reports suggestive of foreign adversaries attacking people with some mystery weapon, even though their own internal reports put the chances of…

That doesn't read like science, it reads like an ideological statement. The current punishment for scientific fraud is non-existent and academia is full of it and ideologically driven pseudoscientific research. Subsequent evidence debunked that "post-mortem", as another user posted. We've seen, with evidence, China pressure research groups and Nature into calling the lab leak hypothesis a conspiracy theory. Like "fak…

I would quite strongly disagree with you here. When researchers engage in academic dishonesty, it not only tends to have extremely negative consequences for themselves in terms of ability to publish, acquire grants, etc but it also directly and significantly affects the journals they published in. And in the case of the COVID stuff, public health officials who officially mislead people may also face criminal consequences, with ongoing investigations pursuing that exact outcome this very moment. [1]

But when journalists or intelligence agencies lie, exactly nothing happens. Intelligence agencies clearly see lying as just part of their retinue of weapons. And the media in general has mostly become a mixture of entertainment and bias confirmation. The internet seems to have largely killed the traditional role of the media as the bearer of information and knowledge on the happenings of the day.

[1] - https://nypost.com/2024/06/02/us-news/house-covid-panel-chai...

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#440
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology. Let the adversaries’ soldiers fight against your machines.

The best part of turning over waging war to machines is that they will fight 'adversaries' just as well as they'll fight your own subjects.

Soldiers can do that perfectly well too.
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