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Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

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431–440 of 582 posts

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're literally at the point of starvation, maybe true - though famines often happen when people simply can't get access to food, even if they have the resources to buy it. So, bringing food to a starving area is unlikely to be bad for business. However, the more important point is that you can surely make money off of people by becoming their only source of food/money - i.e. they would starve without you, so th…

> the more important point is that you can surely make money off of people by becoming their only source of food/money If you the only source, there is a reason for that, usually because you are shooting people who try to leave. I'll cite a counter for you. The US was the first country in the world to eliminate the specter of famine (around 1800). Free labor was the distinguishing ingredient, not slave labor. (The sl…

In the past there was a fairly common practice to create a monopoly by outlawing people from importing food to a local economy. People may recognize the concept of mining towns, company stores, or its role in debt slavery.

The practice back in those days were to advertise inflated wages for a job in remote areas. People then traveled there, only to find out that food and living costs, all under the control of the company, were also inflated to the point where even a full working day would results in debt when subtracting food and living costs. People who tried to flee was prevented from doing so under the argument that they tried to escape acquired debt. The fines for smuggling food was also extreme, since food costs was the primary way that the companies held control over their debt slaves.

This practice was so vile that many countries created laws directly targeting it, including changes to inheritance so that debt would not follow from parent to child.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't understand this take. Why should authors not be able to reap the economic benefits from their work? Someone write a novel and everyone else should be able to copy it? It just doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't this line of reasoning apply to physical property? Why can't I just go live in any house I want? Take any car I want?

Fanciful rubbish from people who have either never put in the effort to write a book, or are so rich they don't need money from them.

Only a tiny proportion of all books ever written have made a living for their authors. Most people write because they want to.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this account keep managing to make every thread on HN into 'communism bad' without getting flagged? Tell me your secrets Walter.

As an anarcho communist and prolific HN commenter I sigh every time I see his name. Sadly he doesn’t actually understand communism and seems to be stuck in 1980’s anti communist propaganda. For example the sibling comment to this one where he conflates collectivism with being “anti freedom” (lol). At least he’s getting the downvotes he deserves in this thread.

As a non-usian it seems kind of weird to see someone from the US declare that using weapons to keep people working is a non-usian thing to do, when a lot of the news we get from over there is cops killing people, school shootings, stuff about school-prison pipelines, things like that.

Then there are the genocidal militias employed by US companies to keep people from unionising, the genocidal treatment of indonesians, and so on.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this account keep managing to make every thread on HN into 'communism bad' without getting flagged? Tell me your secrets Walter.

As an anarcho communist and prolific HN commenter I sigh every time I see his name. Sadly he doesn’t actually understand communism and seems to be stuck in 1980’s anti communist propaganda. For example the sibling comment to this one where he conflates collectivism with being “anti freedom” (lol). At least he’s getting the downvotes he deserves in this thread.

[flagged]

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#435

> "I understand that publishers and authors have to make a profit, but most of the material I am trying to access is written by people who are dead and whose publishers have stopped printing the material," wrote one IA fan from Boston. This really is the crux of the problem. Copyright should be "use it or lose it." If you don't make your books readily available, then you should have no right to demand copies of your…

No, it really isn't. That person, and you, don't understand how publishing - or mass production of any kind, it seems - works. A publisher "stopping printing" of a book is completely normal - books are like any other mass-produced good, in that there are fixed and variable costs to production and a factory can't economically crank out more than a certain number of different things at once. Sp, there are "printings" -…

I never said the books have to be physically printed. Digitize the book and sell it online. Make it available through a kindle unlimited subscription. It doesn't matter, as long as it's readily available. Until then, they should have no right to sue to remove the books from IA.

Also keep in mind that, for many of the books, the authors are dead.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#436
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really don't need to be a lawyer to understand the extent to which Internet Archive really screwed up here. For starters they lost on Summary Judgment, which means they couldn't come up with a single issue of fact that the judge thought deserved a trial. Read the Order, the Judge obviously has it straight. Then check archive.org's Form 990s and see how little money they run on, how much they pissed away on legal…

I disagree. Brewster demonstrated real courage. The world locked down u necessarily precisely because the population has not been getting smarter the past 50 years because copyright has poisoned our information wells. This is a fight worth having. It's time to abolish copyright.

> This is a fight worth having.

Literally everyone here has already stated that they agree with you on this. There's no controversy upthread about whether copyright law needs to be reformed, the controversy is over whether it made sense to risk the entire Internet Archive (whose most important contribution to the knowledge of mankind has nothing to do with online lending) or if it should have been fought by an organization that was built to fight it.

Their instinct to help is admirable, but their lack of restraint shows a major lack of judgment and very well could have put their archives of the internet at risk. Not every nonprofit organization can do everything.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reason for subsiding this group but not others is that our economic system is so bad at utilizing the potential of their work. It's literally free to distribute all books/newspapers/magazines to all people in the world. Why aren't we? It's common to have state intervention in markets that are unable to utilize resources efficiently on their own. About UBI, sure! The point of my comment was that this isn't a "fancif…

How would you determine if someone qualifies as an author deserving full salary? Can I become an author by simply meeting a word count quota? What prevents a large portion of the population from quitting their jobs and becoming authors instead?

You could have some kind of peer review process, or base it on popularity, or some other system.

I'm not saying it's a solved question, I'm just saying it wouldn't be that expensive relative to other public expenditure.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#438

> "I understand that publishers and authors have to make a profit, but most of the material I am trying to access is written by people who are dead and whose publishers have stopped printing the material," wrote one IA fan from Boston. This really is the crux of the problem. Copyright should be "use it or lose it." If you don't make your books readily available, then you should have no right to demand copies of your…

>If you don't make your books readily available, then you should have no right to demand copies of your book be removed from places like IA What if an author explicitly doesn't want to distribute their works or to distribute an alternative version of their works? There was the recent case of the company that owns the rights to Dr. Suess choosing not to publish old versions of books they felt had racist depictions. An…

> There was the recent case of the company that owns the rights to Dr. Suess choosing not to publish old versions of books they felt had racist depictions.

This is actually exactly why I agree with OP. See also the changes made to Roald Dahl books. Future generations deserve to be able to read the content that their forebears produced as they produced it.

I'm supportive of an author's right to not initially publish something that they at the time are uncomfortable with being made public. There should be protections for that. But once something has entered into the public consciousness in a particular form, I'm not okay with a cultural censorship wave being able to memory hole the original copy and replace it with a sanitized version (or wipe it out entirely). They shouldn't be obliged to print content that they find objectionable, but that content needs to be accessible or we lose our history.

Messy and uncomfortable as it is, future generations have a right to see us as we were and are, not as the second-generation holder of our too-long copyright wishes we had been.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#439
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Brewster demonstrated real courage. The world locked down u necessarily precisely because the population has not been getting smarter the past 50 years because copyright has poisoned our information wells. This is a fight worth having. It's time to abolish copyright.

> This is a fight worth having. Literally everyone here has already stated that they agree with you on this. There's no controversy upthread about whether copyright law needs to be reformed, the controversy is over whether it made sense to risk the entire Internet Archive (whose most important contribution to the knowledge of mankind has nothing to do with online lending) or if it should have been fought by an organi…

To put a finer point on it, the archive is there to be an archive -- there is a lot to be done there. The EFF is there to fight battles.

Re: Internet Archive forced to remove 500k books after publishers' court win

#440

There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge. Perhaps these schemes made sense in the past but with the advent of the internet and independent groups willing to fund all hosting fees, we should move to models of publishing that do not require this restriction of information. Library genesis exists but necessarily mu…

> There is no greater folly of contemporary human society than the purposeful restriction of such vast and easily shareable repositories of knowledge This is objectively false. There zero actual harm being done here. There is very little, if any, evidence that the vast majority of the 500k removed books contain information that actually provides value to people, as opposed to being fiction and political advocacy non-…

There was a Wiley translation of an 80s Russian textbook I needed for my research that was nowhere on libgen and which I could only get via ILL. The library yelled at me for making physical copies but IA had it.
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