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This is a teenager

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Re: This is a teenager

#431

Post by hirsin »

tomp wrote: post #404
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teach conflict resolution skills to young children. This is pretty huge. A lot of my experience growing up in California during the 90s was "tell an adult" and "zero tolerance" coming down from school administrators. This is useful at a very young age, but it neglects to equip the children with agency for when the adults aren't around. You can't tell an adult when you're on the school bus and conflict breaks out. Y…

What do you mean? In the adult world, you'd just call the police. In the child world, sometimes you tell the adults, but they don't do anything, and the abuse continues. That's at least my experience with bullying in primary school. "Conflict resolution" and such virtue-signalling buzzwords don't work against violent bullies .

This is fairly literally how people watch a homeless guy get choked to death in the New-York subway. "Someone will call the cops eventually".

No, you can't be a bystander, even if it might be dangerous.

Re: This is a teenager

#432

Post by James_K »

maxerickson wrote: post #426
James_K wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick a metric, it really doesn't matter. The claim that western economic systems are presently lifting people out of poverty is absurd, and my point is that China is responsible for the decreases in global poverty that have taken place over the last decades. Both of these facts are relatively uncontested.

Yes, in recent decades the US has barely had the sort of poverty that China has been eliminating, so it hasn't really made any progress against it. I think it would add a lot of clarity to your comparison to name the metrics you are using.

I wasn't really intending to compare the countries. Just to point out that something which was being attributed to America (a decrease in poverty) was actually happening because of China.

Re: This is a teenager

#433

Post by kulahan »

Clubber wrote: post #297
readams wrote: post #75

One thing that jumps out is that being held back in school is one of the "adverse experiences" that will cause poor performance later. But of course being held back in school is what happens when your school performance is poor, so this seems backward. All of these things just seem to be proxies for "your parents are rich".

>All of these things just seem to be proxies for "your parents are rich". 1. You have good parents (attentive/loving/encouraging/supportive/available). 2. You have access to a good education. Those seem to be the big differentiators in my experience. Rich people typically have #2, so that's 1 of 2 right out of the gate.

Having a lot of money and having loving parents are not related in any way I can tell. Maybe they’re less likely to fight with each other in a money-based scenario, which is probably better for the kid.

Education makes a bit more sense since it’s at least easy to buy your way into a better education.

Re: This is a teenager

#434

Post by taurath »

The layout of the data being poor and accuracy issues called out, while rightly, don't really engage with the narrative.

This infographic talks about the economic outcomes, but there are also major health outcomes like early death, mental health issues that this doesn't approach. I think in a way it takes away from the core ideas of the impact of ACE's, which Everyone should absolutely know about. There IS a direct causal link from ACE's to poor life outcomes, and here is some reading on that:

https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(98)00017-8/ful...

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/resources.html

Re: This is a teenager

#435

Post by lazyasciiart »

no-dr-onboard wrote: post #362
anon291 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately a solid number of these things would rely on the moral equivalent of slavery. > Reduce the burden of poverty. For instance, the poorer you are the further you have to travel to the grocery store. The people who often don't have the means to easily travel for food have to travel for food. No one wants to work in these neighborhoods because they are invariably awful. At some point the risk of an employee…

> No one wants to work in these neighborhoods because they are invariably awful Yeah, no kidding. But why are they awful to begin with? I'd hazard that it's because families have been asleep at the wheel in teaching their children to be good citizens. The change for something like this comes bottom-up, not top-down. You could try to boil it down to economics, but that's misguided. The markets are a terrible tutor of…

It's just crazy to see people who still have this kind of absolute flat earth perception of life. Right up there with "if we build more roads then traffic will get better".

Re: This is a teenager

#436

Post by maxerickson »

James_K wrote: post #432
maxerickson wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in recent decades the US has barely had the sort of poverty that China has been eliminating, so it hasn't really made any progress against it. I think it would add a lot of clarity to your comparison to name the metrics you are using.

I wasn't really intending to compare the countries. Just to point out that something which was being attributed to America (a decrease in poverty) was actually happening because of China.

Fascinating.

Re: This is a teenager

#437

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

imacomputertoo wrote: post #209

The conclusion of this data presentation is that so of these people are our collective responsibility, and I just wasn't convinced. I wish they had shown percentages with the visualization. They choose not to. I was underwhelmed by some points that seemed like they should have been more shocking. Look at the huge number of people in the many adverse experiences category who made it to college, and make a high salary.…

The point is, likely intentionally, understated. I cannot speak for the author, but the gist I got is that our society thrusts wholly unprepared people into adulthood and we could get a lot of improvements from just making it harder for people to fail at adulting. IYKYK and if you don’t you will get fucked - repeatedly.

Basic life skills are not taught so it’s up to the individual if their family fails. Importantly, it is unreasonable to expect someone to teach another how to do something they don’t know how to do.

I’m talking about stuff like navigating health insurance, paying taxes, budgeting, managing credit, home maintenance, vehicle care. Mistakes in any one of these domains can have devastating consequences that profoundly change one’s life. Simple things like single payer health care (only complex because of greedy people demanding a tax for the privilege the laws wrote grant them), personal budgeting education, and teaching basic home improvement skills will markedly improve many people’s lives.

We could also discuss more difficult topics like the complete lack of a meaningful social safety net, and the rippling consequences of systemic injustice but that’s less on topic and more likely to get me flamed or trolled.

Re: This is a teenager

#438

Post by richardlblair »

parpfish wrote: post #413
anon291 wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canada also have horrific city planning, so when I say people need to travel far I mean they need to spend up to 3 hours in some major (major for us) cities just to get groceries. I can't imagine anyone in a major US city spending 3 hours. Maybe rurally, but even the so-called 'food deserts' in a big city like LA ... it's just a few miles. At the end of the day, look... my mother taught in inner-city public schools…

3 hours seems plausible if you need to take a bus trip with a transfer. 1:15 each way on the bus and 30min in the store

Bingo. Especially in poorly laid out cities.

Re: This is a teenager

#439

Post by danans »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #412
danans wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trauma (physical and emotional) causing reduction in IQ is totally compatible with IQ being in part heritable. Regarding race/ethnicity correlations from the paper you posted: "(McGue et al., 2007; Miller et al., 2012). McGue et al. (2007) reported minimal ethnicity effects in the SIBS sample at intake, which we largely replicate in the current follow-up assessment. While rearing family socioeconomic status and polyg…

It's also compatible with low IQ causing poverty and bad parenting.

Low IQ doesn't "cause" poverty. Poverty is highly multivariate, and likely dominated by factors having nothing to do with IQ, like structural inequities in health/education access and historical lack of access to asset ownership, and exclusion from access to other vehicles of economic advancement.

Re: This is a teenager

#440

Post by eslaught »

Has anyone done anything like this for historical time periods? I realize the data is inherently sparse, but I'd be curious to see what the results would look like in 1900, 1800, 1700, 1600, etc.

My impression of the data is that, actually, we're doing pretty well with social mobility. Not perfectly by any means, and there is lots of room to improve. But as compared to (I think) just about any historical period, I think the graphs would be even more skewed. I'm fairly certain that as a medieval peasant, there were basically no viable routes to improving your lot (and even the word "lot" betrays the assumptions of the time), and so acceptance was the only viable route (violent rebellions excepted).

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