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Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

wsj.com

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Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#431

Post by firesteelrain »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #393
RomanAlexander wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't said trampoline simply not be covered by the policy since you lied about it? The agents are checking a box and the underwriter is sticking in a boilerplate "Customer said no trampoline therefore trampolines are excluded from this policy" text

Trampoline is a bad example. Pool is not. That could threaten your house’s structure, or cause damage to your neighbour’s in a storm. The article gave an example of an overhanging tree—it makes sense for the population to segregate into those who will manage that risk and those who won’t, with the latter being charged a higher premium.

Pools are 'attractive nuisances'

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#432

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

sologoub wrote: post #380
EligibleDecoy wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called “money.” That is the reason. Slate roofs are common in the UK, and using synthetic slate is $7-12/sqft, whereas bitumen/asphalt shingles which are common in the USA cost $0.50-$1.00/sqft. Average home in the USA is 2,200 sq ft with a roof size of 1,700 sq ft. So $1,700 vs $11,900 is quite a difference (and that was being most generous, excluding installation costs, etc) So basically, average person who ow…

Materials may cost that, but you are not getting a roof replaced for $1,700. Maybe $17,000 and even then it’s pushing it on the coasts especially. Labor and other overhead costs have really gone up and contractors don’t want to deal with small jobs. Sad really. I’ve never seen slate roofs in California, so not sure if these are to code here. We looked at metal and other materials, but the problem is the weight is dif…

There is very little acceptable roofing slate available in the USA. PA has a few quarries that provide it, but according to roofers (in PA) that I talked to, it is still nowhere close in quality to, say, Welsh slate. Too many voids which when coupled with much more severe freeze/thaw cycling in much of the USA leads to early failures.

I think you may be overestimating the extent to which UK houses are held for "generations.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#433

Post by bilegeek »

trogdor wrote: post #369
wombatpm wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance companies want money to come in and never go out. If they could they would sell life insurance to dead people and homeowners insurance to the homeless.

Businesses want to maximize profits, but an insurance company that doesn’t pay claims will quickly have no customers.

Except for the mandated ones, like car insurance.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#434

Post by firesteelrain »

londons_explore wrote: post #351

> If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off, It amazes me that people in the US would even consider installing a roof that would only last 20 years. In the UK, you wouldn't consider reroofing anything that your grandparents remember being installed. Ie. Stuff doesn't get reroofed till it's 100 years old. Even then, you'll normally inspect and only replace the damaged bits. My 350 year old…

US has a lot of different weather patterns than the UK. UK sits at a latitude similar to that of states like Washington, Montana, and North Dakota. The choice of roofing materials is also influenced by building regulations and codes, which can vary between countries and even within regions, dictating the use of certain materials for fire resistance, insulation, and other safety and performance standards. Cost-effectiveness is a factor. Like Florida with crazy hurricanes, no reason to be spending money on something besides asphalt architectural style shingles. Some people do get metal roofs. But if its going to get blown off, then why?

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#435

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

londons_explore wrote: post #351

> If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off, It amazes me that people in the US would even consider installing a roof that would only last 20 years. In the UK, you wouldn't consider reroofing anything that your grandparents remember being installed. Ie. Stuff doesn't get reroofed till it's 100 years old. Even then, you'll normally inspect and only replace the damaged bits. My 350 year old…

The UK has a massively milder climate than most of the USA, which provides significant assistance to things lasting.

As I noted in another comment below, roofing slate is essentially unavailable in the USA due to geology - what does exist is of much lower quality than a good welsh slate. Still, in some ways I agree with you: roofing materials in general in the USA are far less durable those used in the UK and Europe, for reasons that I don't entirely undestand.

That said, it amazes me that huge numbers of people in the UK live in essentially uninsulated and almost uninsulatable buildings. Sure, winters are mild, but anytime you have the heat on in the millions of homes built post-WWII, a huge amount of is just leaking through the brick walls. US stud framed construction has its problems if done carelessly, but it does have the benefit that its easy and obvious to insulate your walls to some degree, and not hard to do it to Passivhaus standards.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#436

Post by alistairSH »

ssl-3 wrote: post #417
everybodyknows wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that insurers will spend money to discover this rather than rely on the pro forma clause that claims proceeding from an undisclosed risk are invalid. I'm guessing they calculate that a jury may not respect that part of the contract when confronted in court by grieving parents of an accident victim.

How is an unversed lay homeowner who is inexpert in the insurance industry (or perhaps even any industry) supposed to know what risks an insurer thinks are important? Their job, I think, is to accept the quote, pay the premiums, and to keep living life.

I’m assuming the insurer would ask. How old is the roof? Do you have a pool? Etc.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#437

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

londons_explore wrote: post #351

> If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off, It amazes me that people in the US would even consider installing a roof that would only last 20 years. In the UK, you wouldn't consider reroofing anything that your grandparents remember being installed. Ie. Stuff doesn't get reroofed till it's 100 years old. Even then, you'll normally inspect and only replace the damaged bits. My 350 year old…

Has your 350 year-old house been hit by hail, some of which is the size of golf balls, in enough volume that the ground is as white as if it had snowed? Because that's a not-uncommon occurrence here in the midwestern US.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#438

Post by GenerWork »

firesteelrain wrote: post #434
londons_explore wrote: post #351

> If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off, It amazes me that people in the US would even consider installing a roof that would only last 20 years. In the UK, you wouldn't consider reroofing anything that your grandparents remember being installed. Ie. Stuff doesn't get reroofed till it's 100 years old. Even then, you'll normally inspect and only replace the damaged bits. My 350 year old…

US has a lot of different weather patterns than the UK. UK sits at a latitude similar to that of states like Washington, Montana, and North Dakota. The choice of roofing materials is also influenced by building regulations and codes, which can vary between countries and even within regions, dictating the use of certain materials for fire resistance, insulation, and other safety and performance standards. Cost-effecti…

>Like Florida with crazy hurricanes, no reason to be spending money on something besides asphalt architectural style shingles. Some people do get metal roofs. But if its going to get blown off, then why?

Tile and metal roofs last much longer than asphalt roofs in Florida, and while it's definitely more up front, they're generally more resistant to extreme weather (tiles are very heavy and metal is generally fastened down very well) and may get you an insurance discount. It's also for aesthetic reasons, as tile roofs are a very classic Florida look, and the stereotypical Key West house has a metal roof.

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#439

Post by slyall »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #306
medion wrote: post #289

This aerial stuff now enhanced by AI is a privacy rights nightmare - in Australia, local councils are utilizing high res images shot by plane, which are AI analysed for infractions - ie. Illegal outbuildings, cut trees, earth works greater than a metre in depth, solar panels placed without auth etc. This kind of tech is going to be abused by both the private and public sector to no end. The images have a resolution t…

This is not a technology or privacy problem - it's a legislative one. If it's illegal to do X, then it seems reasonable for the gov't to enforce that - the more efficiently the better. And if enforcing it seems wrong, then maybe it shouldn't be a law. For another toy example, what if speed laws in the US were fully enforced 100% of the time - they would be yanked immediately, because they are dumb and mostly just use…

The US is very lax about enforcing speed laws compared to other countries.

Compare to somewhere like Australia where you get fined for just going a few km/h over the limit and the use speed cameras extensively.

https://www.qld.gov.au/about/newsroom/increased-penalties-fo...

Whereas it seems to be common in parts of the US for everyone on a freeway to be 10 miles/hour over the limit and nobody cares

Re: Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

#440

Post by colechristensen »

landedgentry wrote: post #17

I'm less concerned about the spying and more concerned about insurance companies arbitrarily non-renewing policies with no recourse for the consumer. Insurance is heavily regulated for good reason, and insurance should be a source of stability instead of anxiety.

I don’t think insurance companies should be forced to protect you from your own outsized risk taking at a government capped price.
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