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Why is it so hard to build an airport?

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431–440 of 574 posts

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#431
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxi is not the main way to leave airports in large part of the world.

It definitely is not for narita, NEX brings you to Tokyo in an hour.

And that's the most confortable way, there are even cheaper alternatives like the Keisei line.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#432

I would be pretty upset if all of a sudden my house was under the flight path of a new airport (and the associated economic consequences) but I always find it surprising how annoyed people get that put a house near an airport and then complain about it, where one of my parents lives there is a small but fairly busy private airport that has been there close to a hundred years, so almost no one that lives by it now can…

I used to live above a Japanese bar in the centre of Melbourne, Australia. It was a busy street in a busy part of town. (Robot, for the locals.)

Of course this place was sold, both to renters and buyers, as ‘hip’, it was ‘the inner-city lifestyle’, it was ‘everything on your doorstep’.

And yet the neighbours. My god what cretins. Noise! On a weekend! They couldn’t bear it.

I think it should be flat-out forbidden to complain about noise if the thing you’re complaining about existed when you arrived.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#433

I would be pretty upset if all of a sudden my house was under the flight path of a new airport (and the associated economic consequences) but I always find it surprising how annoyed people get that put a house near an airport and then complain about it, where one of my parents lives there is a small but fairly busy private airport that has been there close to a hundred years, so almost no one that lives by it now can…

Portland, OR has a similar problem with the raceway. People buy houses near Portland International Raceway and then complain about the noise of race cars. Just doesn't make sense to me.

You don't say? I know more than one bar that was shut down after someone moved in above it with the explicit warning that it is a bar.

Noise is killer, even if you don't think it is. A well rested adult will not have any problems stomaching a single noisy night. But if every night is noisy you are going to fall apart after a while. Dosis making poisons etc. On a related note, sexism is bad for a similar reason. It is not about one asshole making one comment, once. What makws it bad is getting those constantly and from all kind of directions.

I once lived next to a main road and when I moved after a few years, the first night in a silent room felt like someone had lifted a sack of bricks from my chest. And I play in a rock band, so not the noise averse type.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#434
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm not against them, but it's very much a modest, incremental measure, like going from no bike lanes to painted bike lanes in the door zone. You need much bigger changes to truly make HSR viable imo.

I imagine most anywhere that would get an hsr would also have a present day bus system that can have routing better oriented to serve the new infrastructure. Bike lanes are always nice but I imagine not very many people are going to want to start their inter city trip with luggage in tow trying to lug that around on a bike.

You might be surprised. High speed rail isn't always about trips where you need a lot of luggage, and cargo bikes are popular in places with good bike infrastructure.

Of course, the number of places with actually "good" bike infrastructure isn't very high. There's the Netherlands...and that's about it. And even the Netherlands doesn't really have "great" bike infrastructure as a standard (though it does have it in some places).

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like exceptionally poor planning. Just to confirm, the new airport served pretty much only international flights? It should have been the nexus for domestic travel to connect to the big hop to Europe, meaning it should have had a ton of domestic routes as well feeding it.

Just to confirm, the new airport served pretty much only international flights? It was a pretty common urban planning concept for a large city to have one airport devoted mostly or entirely to domestic flights, and one mostly or entirely for international flights. New York domestic: EWR New York international: JFK New York freight: LGA Chicago domestic: MDW Chicago international: ORD Houston domestic: HOU Houston int…

> It was a pretty common urban planning concept for a large city to have one airport devoted mostly or entirely to domestic flights, and one mostly or entirely for international flights.

Which, like urban highways, really doesn't make a sense in most cases if one spends a few minutes thinking about it. And especially doesn't make sense for an airport whose main traffic is connecting international and domestic flights.

Urban planners in many places in the 1950-1990 time were... special. Blindly copying bullshit that didn't make sense originally and definitely didn't make sense in their city.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#436
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an urban environment you can build UP. Airports avoid structure over 40 or 50ft to avoid interfering with the controllers visibility. Instead of having one giant check in hall you could have one floor per airline, for instance.

Airports because of noise have plenty of space nobody else wants so building out isn't an issue.

The exact issue under discussion is "We can't build airports where people can get to them because of how big loud and annoying they are". I am proposing a mitigation aka problem solving.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#437

I would be pretty upset if all of a sudden my house was under the flight path of a new airport (and the associated economic consequences) but I always find it surprising how annoyed people get that put a house near an airport and then complain about it, where one of my parents lives there is a small but fairly busy private airport that has been there close to a hundred years, so almost no one that lives by it now can…

Some counterpoints:

'I was there first' doesn't give you more property rights than the other person.

The amount of or location of the noise could change over time.

If the airport has been careless about noise for 20 years, that doesn't make it ok for them to continue.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#438

There's been discussions where the "next" airport should go in the Seattle region, and the consensus is that nobody wants it. The State Legislature created a commission to try and identify some potential sites, but the public backlash was so great that they ended up submitting it's final report with no actual recommendation. One of the interesting ideas (that was proposed even back when SEA was adding it's third runw…

Paine field is the new seattle area airport.

Paine field can't support what is needed and can't be expanded. But it will continue to service a small percent of the overall need.

The state has created a new commission to start the new airport site selection process over again, but this time it will just be a recommendation.

The previous project that had been going on for many years was site selection and not just recommendation, but their selection(s) pissed off the people and so the whole thing got just got killed recently.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#439

I would be pretty upset if all of a sudden my house was under the flight path of a new airport (and the associated economic consequences) but I always find it surprising how annoyed people get that put a house near an airport and then complain about it, where one of my parents lives there is a small but fairly busy private airport that has been there close to a hundred years, so almost no one that lives by it now can…

One can be surprised by the traffic increase. "When I moved here 25 years ago, there was one flight in the morning and one in the afternoon. Now it's every 5 minutes from 6 am to 10 pm and they're trying to extend it post 10 pm!"

This is what happened in my childhood home. We lived within a couple miles of a mid-sized airport. We could always hear the planes to some extent, but over time they expanded their cargo operations, which typically fly at night. They also added a new flight path that went directly over our house, so it became common for 747s to fly 2000 feet above us every 15-20 minutes through the night. I was fortunate to be a heavy sleeper.

Re: Why is it so hard to build an airport?

#440

I would be pretty upset if all of a sudden my house was under the flight path of a new airport (and the associated economic consequences) but I always find it surprising how annoyed people get that put a house near an airport and then complain about it, where one of my parents lives there is a small but fairly busy private airport that has been there close to a hundred years, so almost no one that lives by it now can…

I used to live above a Japanese bar in the centre of Melbourne, Australia. It was a busy street in a busy part of town. (Robot, for the locals.) Of course this place was sold, both to renters and buyers, as ‘hip’, it was ‘the inner-city lifestyle’, it was ‘everything on your doorstep’. And yet the neighbours. My god what cretins. Noise! On a weekend! They couldn’t bear it. I think it should be flat-out forbidden to c…

What did they say about it, if you asked them?

You never know: Maybe the bar owner has been a jerk to them, maybe it could be quieter. Also, a transient resident can have a much different perspective than someone who is there permanently.

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