Earlier quoted context omitted.
> other gatekeepers Because they are not "gatekeepers", a term defined by the DMA which focuses on specific sectors. Also the video game ecosystem is pretty healthy these days, with nearly every major game available on Windows at launch or a few months later. As a matter of market competition , letting you hack your game console or smart TV or whatever just isn't that relevant.
Following your line of argument, isn’t the app ecosystem the healthiest of all, with nearly every major app available on Android and iOS?
Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
431–440 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#432"The Core Technology Fee (CTF) is an element of the business terms in the EU that reflects the value Apple provides developers through ongoing investments in the tools, technologies, and services that enable them to build and share innovative apps with users around the world." I feel sick. Yet, I am intrigued by what kind of drugs the PR team at Apple is taking... ;) In my opinion, Apple's proprietary APIs provide a…
> provides developers through ongoing investments in the tools, technologies, and services that enable them to build and share innovative apps with users around the world. That's what the 99$ fee for the developer program is for. The 50ct Core Technology Fee is just Apple showing the middle finger to successful developers. I hope the EU goes after this fee first. The whole reason for the DMA is that developers do not…
pretty much the same way nintendo or sony or microsoft justify it, I'd think.
it's pretty much exactly the same thing as windows S edition, or a console - you paid for the laptop, the developer paid to get notarization to release it. As Android shows, it is also probably legal to refuse to unlock the bootloader... now you own an "appliance".
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/03/windows-1...
And again, consoles have been doing this for two full decades now. PS5 isn't sold at a loss (and I don't think it matters if it is - your business model is not my problem) but I can't go mine crypto or emulate games on a PS5 or Xbox even if that's what I want to do with it as a user.
And I know that consoles got a specific carveout in the DMA "for some reason" (more evidence this is really just a bill of attainder in generic dress) but really there is not a moral difference here, and people have (including here, including the apple haters) have generally convinced themselves that it's OK. It's simple, just do the same thing with apple: "my phone is an appliance and I don't need to emulate games to be happy with it". It's a console in my pocket that makes calls.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#433Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#434This topic is polarizing because it shows how Silicon Valley betrayed its original hacker mindset of openness in favor of tech feudalism. I'm pleasantly surprised to see the EU standing in this battle. This is a good thing for hackers, creativity and competition in the mobile space
"Always has been."
Silicon Valley's original sin is Steve Jobs conning Steve Wozniak and a bunch of tech contractors into building his business empire. Every company in the Bay Area is a politically implausible liason of a very specific kind of Objectivist control freak CEO[0] and the hippie nerds that can actually build what they want to sell.
The hacker mindset of openness is very easy to confuse with Jobs-types that want openness for thee but not for me. It's very easy to complain about people currently abusing their power (remember Google's "Don't Be Evil" poking fun at Microsoft?) but hard to recognize incipient abuses of future power. The only way to unambiguously avoid this is to go full Stallman[1] and categorically distolerate any amount of control or ownership over one's work.
To make matters worse, this industry is one in which you really can't make money unless you're selling something that's closed off and locked down. The people who actually do play fair get bankrupted any time the government is looking the other way on antitrust.
[0] Yes, I am calling out YCombinator. You're part of the problem.
[1] To be clear, RMS very much has Jobs' personality, grafted onto Woz's morality and skill. He would have become just as awful as Jobs had he not insisted on Free Software early on.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#435Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it interesting that some pro-Wallet garden folks argument is: "Don't like Apple? Don't buy it then." Well I can use the same argument for apps. "Don't like this third party app store or their dark patterns? Don't buy it then." Vote with your wallet, goes both ways. Or, hear me out, let's regulate so neither Apple nor other vendors can abuse their customers. And it's not like Apple's protection is effective. Ap…
The problem is that the less-tech-literate people don't recognize the dark patterns. I like iPhones because it means I don't have to worry about my parents' phones. I am not looking forward to the day when all their contacts and pictures are siphoned off because they downloaded the required "ebook reader" via the big download button on a random website.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#436Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't really know that I agree with the analogy. Yes, you're kind of right, I don't really have a problem with not being able to easily sideload stuff on my oven or dishwasher, despite the fact that they technically have computers in them. They are highly specific, single-purpose things and sideloading Doom on there doesn't really make sense. Even a game console is still more or less single purpose (though that lin…
The way that an iPhone is different from a Nintendo Switch is arbitrary though. If you're talking about changing laws it'd be nice to have more of a defense than "this computer we call a phone should be treated differently than the computer we call a Gameboy". Without some clear and useable definitions, there's no precedents that can be set and leveraged. You will also, by necessity, require bureaucratic bloat to dec…
I'd argue that while there isn't a hard line in the sand, we more or less define "computer" as something that's "general purpose". I don't consider my oven a "computer", I don't consider my digital COVID test a computer, I don't consider my key fob a computer. I do consider my Macbook a computer, because I do a lot of dissimilar things with it; I write documents, I watch videos, I listen to music, I play games, I log into servers, I VoIP chat with friends, I edit video, etc. I don't think anyone disputes that a Macbook is a "computer"; if nothing else all of that applies to Linux and Windows as well.
You know what else it applies to? An iPhone. I can do all those things with an iPhone. I really can't do any of those things (besides play games) on a GameBoy.
Of course, admittedly I'm kind of moving the goalpost, because of course the line of "general purpose" is kind of arbitrary; the Gameboy did have a camera, the Gameboy Advance had a TV Tuner and MP3 player, so you're absolutely right that it would require some kind of bureaucratic overhead to define what "general purpose" even means, and moreover the second that they have a definition the companies will use that as a guide to narrowly skirt it and therefore avoid regulation.
I don't know the solution, but I do know that it feels a bit dirty for Apple to feel entitled to so much money when they're not even the ones distributing the apps at that point. People gave so much shit to Unity for their idiotic "install fee", but people have become bizarrely defensive of Apple for doing basically the same thing.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#437Earlier quoted context omitted.
The very short is, that AT&T between 1974 and 1982, due to the telephony monopoly rulings, wasn't allowed to sell software. Thus they gave their research results to universities, like Berkely.
How different is that from tech giants using their monopoly profits to develop software that they give away for free? You say AT&T gave away some software to universities. Similarly Google gives away Go (among many other projects) as FOSS for anyone to use. If Google didn't have to worry about money, they might not develop these things to give away for free.
I get the impression Google has no intent to give things away for free anymore lol
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#438This topic is polarizing because it shows how Silicon Valley betrayed its original hacker mindset of openness in favor of tech feudalism. I'm pleasantly surprised to see the EU standing in this battle. This is a good thing for hackers, creativity and competition in the mobile space
"Wait, it's all feudalism?" "Always has been." Silicon Valley's original sin is Steve Jobs conning Steve Wozniak and a bunch of tech contractors into building his business empire. Every company in the Bay Area is a politically implausible liason of a very specific kind of Objectivist control freak CEO[0] and the hippie nerds that can actually build what they want to sell. The hacker mindset of openness is very easy t…
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
Splitting up needs to happen for big and monopolistic US companies, no ifs, no buts. That is if they still want to keep a technological edge in the next 10-15 years. I personally don’t think that the forced split-up will happen, the direct interests involved are too big for that to have any chance of success, but it’s the only way forward for the US as a whole (when it comes to IT).
Any particular reason you are picking on US companies? or big companies? Most, if not all, monopolies are sustained by government via laws, regulations, and so on. So let's get specific, which monopolies do you think should be forced to split up and we can test that theory and see if we can identify what government actions sustain the monopoly.
Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google Play store has some exclusive privileges?
Yes, for example you can't allow an alternative app store to do auto updates on the background.