Boeing whistleblower found dead in US • Hacker News Board

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#431

Post by Stranger43 » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:22 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #416

Stranger43 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But doesn't that either disprove capitalism as an realistic working system or make an argument that the state have an obligation to protect the market by destroying large corporations before they become dominant. A lot of the traditional critiques of capitalism have been that it will inevitable degrade back into mercantilism if the capitalist are not challenged by an democratic state and functional trade unions, but…

There are a couple of ways to look at it: 1. If another player(s) are able to start and freely operate as a competitor then talented engineers will have more options for employment and each entity will have to compete on both price AND quality in order to win business. This requires continued investments. 2. If the original player is able to use regulatory frameworks, lobbying and other tactics to enforce a monopoly,…

We all know that the Boeing mess will end up with everyone involved in creating the mess walking away richer as the state goes in an cover whatever bill to keep boeing from collapsing as the alternative will be for non-american companies to take over the entire commercial airoplane manufacturing sector.

The problem with the just more competition argument is that it never actually works once a market reach a broken state it never self correct as too many people is going to be affected for that to be allowed to happen, which is exactly how mercantilism keeps creeping back, as the nation state behind it falls into the trap that protecting whats working is preferable to allowing the chaos of creative destruction to take down an entire sector of the nations economy.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#432

Post by amadeuspagel » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:22 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #164

jjk166 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self inflicted wound in the middle of several days of scheduled depositions. Just about as suspicious as could be.

I'm not convinced. Boeing doesn't want more attention, depositions are stressful, and whistleblowers are predisposed to martyrdom. If you're Boeing, this doesn't make the problem go away, it makes it worse .

Boeing doesn't order assasinations. If he was assasinated, it might have been someone at Boeing, who still has a clean slate but knows that the whistleblower knows something he did, and has the right connections from working for a defense contractor.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#433

Post by selbyk » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:22 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #399

kaycey2022 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think this FAA audit will not be corrupted?

To come down to the general quality of discusion: reasons. On a more serious note: Reporting states that Boeing and Spirit failed a third of their audits, so there is that. Also, FAA stopped Boeing from expanding their 737 MAX capacity. Also also, EASA can audit them as well (and very well might, deoending on what findings the FAA audits have; same as the FAA can audit Airbus in Europe). But hey, if you think up even…

Judging by the comment thread here, I believe discussions on HN would improve if you follow thru and stick to your local newspaper.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#434

Post by hammock » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:23 PM UTC

furyg3 wrote: post #265

yifanl wrote: post #61

I'm just going to take this story at face value, there's an infinite number of alternate explanations that I'd be powerless to talk about. I've had my own (thankfully brief) moments where I've thought about suicide just from the perception that my coworkers, my bosses, the entire world, just does not care about doing the right thing. Mr Barnett worked for the same company for over three decades and physically watched…

Just to chime in on the 'alternate explanations', I think it's important for anyone with conspiracy ideas to remember that the case he was being questioned in was not an investigation into Boeings liability as an airplane manufacturer, but rather a civil suit he made against Boeing for defamation of character.

Your comment borders on gaslighting.

Barnett was involved in a whistleblower lawsuit against Boeing, alleging serious safety concerns at the North Charleston plant, where he managed quality for the 787 Dreamliner production. He claimed the push for speed compromised safety, with sub-standard parts being used and a significant failure rate in emergency oxygen systems.

Despite raising these issues, he felt his concerns were disregarded, leading to legal action against Boeing, alleging career damage due to his whistleblowing.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#435

Post by saalweachter » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:25 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #227

mef wrote: post #23

Anyone know why this isn’t on the front page with 96 pts one hour after submission?

High comment rates on a recently posted story will weigh the story down. This is by design, and the quality of comments presently on this story does much to demonstrate the reasoning behind that choice. Most likely the story will be reposted or "second chance" resurrected in the morning, when all the grownups are awake and not just those of us having a touch of insomnia.

Sometimes when there is an inane story floating around on page one/two, I'll comment on it without up voting; its basically like a downvote as far as the algorithm is concerned.

Meta comments about how the story is ranking or explaining the ranking algorithm to people complaining about how the story is ranking are a great subject for an empty comment.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#436

Post by mcv » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:31 PM UTC

hnbad wrote: post #368

sokoloff wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s right. It’s hard to know from a distance “they are definitely doing the right thing” so the appearance of doing the right thing is valued. Then, as a politician, appearing to do the right thing is sufficient and then pretending to do the right thing is often cheaper/higher output per unit of input, so pretending is rewarded.

The problem is not democracy (everyone getting an equal vote) but representative democracy (everyone getting a vote on a person once every N years who then gets the power to do what they want which they hopefully did not lie about in order to get those votes). Delegation (everyone getting an equal vote on all issues but being able to designate someone else to vote on their behalf on any given issue without forfeiting…

I've been thinking about something similar. Before the internet, this sort of system would be extremely impractical, and representative democracy is a pretty obvious choice, given the limitations of the time. But now, with the internet, it's a lot easier to handle this in a fluid way with little friction.

The only downside might be that deep discussions of nuanced topics between the delegates might be useless if most votes ignore the discussion. Compromise might get a lot harder, and nuance and depth might be lost. On the other hand, it might also kill corporate lobbying. It's worth a try, and definitely an improvement over first-past-the-post systems and those where politicians are bought by corporate interests.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#437

Post by dikaio » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:31 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #399

kaycey2022 wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think this FAA audit will not be corrupted?

To come down to the general quality of discusion: reasons. On a more serious note: Reporting states that Boeing and Spirit failed a third of their audits, so there is that. Also, FAA stopped Boeing from expanding their 737 MAX capacity. Also also, EASA can audit them as well (and very well might, deoending on what findings the FAA audits have; same as the FAA can audit Airbus in Europe). But hey, if you think up even…

Upvote for the “also also” statement

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#438

Post by mcv » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #374

mcv wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your skepticism is warranted. Democracy tries to select for people doing the right thing, but of course people interested in power will try to game the system by pretending to do the right thing.

> Democracy tries to select for people doing the right thing If this was true, wouldn't democracy improve standard school curriculum so the general public at least has a chance at being able to choose quality leadership, see through the incessant lying/untruthfulness and misinformation of politicians and the media/journalists, have the ability to at least sometimes think of things from an absolute (what is maybe poss…

Yes. And they do. The functioning ones, at least. Corrupt democracies obviously don't, but that's the nature of corruption. But I'm pretty sure the best education systems are generally found in democracies.

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#439

Post by Der_Einzige » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:40 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #156

dang wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a technical article. It's a lurid media topic* about a suspicious-looking alleged suicide with zero information for a substantive discussion, and tons of fuel for sinister speculation. That's not what HN is supposed to be for. However, we can give this one a pass because the ongoing Boeing saga is of interest and there's clearly a community appetite to discuss this development. Edit: even though the thread i…

Flatly untrue. It's a soberly worded recitation of the available facts with multiple caveas; the frenzy of speculation stems from Boeing's increasingly tattered corporate reputation, not the story. This was written to far higher standards than (for example) a story from the Daily Mail or New York Post; I'm astonished that you would characterize this way.

[flagged]

Re: Boeing whistleblower found dead in US

#440

Post by mcv » Tue, Mar 12, 2024, 2:41 PM UTC

hiatus wrote: post #398

mcv wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helps to give power to people who care about doing the right thing, instead of to people who don't care. Democracy tends towards the former, but capitalism tends towards the latter.

> Democracy tends towards the former, but capitalism tends towards the latter. How did you arrive at this conclusion? The earliest versions of democracy used sortition for selection and thus couldn't account for doing the right thing. And of course we all know about the "tyranny of the majority" so I wonder why you believe democracy is somehow biased to selecting "people who care about doing the right thing".

Democracy represents the will of the people, who, in general tend to care about morality and doing the right thing (although of course they can be misled and manipulated). Capitalism tends towards maximising profit, which often comes at the cost of doing the right thing.

> I wonder why you believe democracy is somehow biased to selecting "people who care about doing the right thing".

Because people are. Why would something be considered "the right thing" if there weren't people believing it?

I realise that Trump campaigning explicitly on doing the wrong thing and still being popular, would seem to contradict this, but he's an outlier, and apparently many of his supporters still somehow believe that whatever he's doing is somehow right. Of course they've been misled and manipulated, but that's the big vulnerability of democracy (although it's also possible in every other system).