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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#431

Post by markbnj »

geraldwhen wrote: post #251
sz4kerto wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree and I am sad that we're teaching each other to be skeptical and cynical. The company is not your friend and not your enemy, I agree. However, people _do_ develop personal relationship with each other. Sometimes even across the different levels in the company hierarchy. Yes, as with any other relationship, circumstances and interests might override this, but relationships still do matter. People have emotio…

This is just unrealistic. When layoffs happens, whole departments can get cut. They don’t differentiate performers. Likewise, there is a huge bias in hiring against older developers. Getting laid off in your 40s is a death sentence. You’ll never make as much money again, and you’ll be lucky to find employment. Be ready to retire by 50, because anything else is both risky and improbable.

Being ready to retire at 50 would be a good thing, but getting laid off in your 40's is not a death sentence. I'm 63 now, still working as an engineer, and I was laid off in my 40's, twice. In addition to the emergency fund, another great way to build some security is to keep learning new stuff. In my experience the older engineers who get into trouble are the ones who try to rest on what they know and inhabit a niche they've built for themselves. In our business knowledge evaporates and niches crumble.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#432

Post by pas »

hotpotamus wrote: post #270
katzgrau wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone reading this, please don’t subscribe to this level of cynicism. For SWEs at Google and almost anywhere else, the wind has blown very favorably for you and that’s something to be celebrated. The direction of the wind has shifted, but we can never expect it to stay blowing in one direction forever, even if others get lucky and catch one like that. You will no doubt set your sail and take it to new and wonder…

If this is merely the result of a change in weather, then Sundar Pichai must be the god of the winds.

at Alphabet he[0] most certainly is

[0] well, probably not he alone, but he is the figurehead of a group that put him there and keeps him there, and at Alphabet that group shits the wind

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#433

Post by maxehmookau »

badgersnake wrote: post #310
teitoklien wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You add unions in tech, and then wonder why dev salaries in EU and the UK are so abysmally low.

Unions are pretty rare in tech in the UK also. I don’t think that’s the reason.

That's not true I'm afraid.

UTAW and CWU specifically are unions for tech workers in the UK. At big companies especially, like BT, a sizable proportion of the workforce is unionised.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#434

Post by rkachowski »

katzgrau wrote: post #260
otikik wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you are saying. I am an engineer-turned-EM and you don't know me, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt: > Your job is NOT safe. Nothing will make execs happier than having this line of thought popularized amongst engineers. It will allow them to hire cheaper, and exploit existing engineers more. I think a better way to put it is: "A job is not your family, and a job is not your identity. Yo…

For anyone reading this, please don’t subscribe to this level of cynicism. For SWEs at Google and almost anywhere else, the wind has blown very favorably for you and that’s something to be celebrated. The direction of the wind has shifted, but we can never expect it to stay blowing in one direction forever, even if others get lucky and catch one like that. You will no doubt set your sail and take it to new and wonder…

Are you seriously saying that people should express gratitude for being fired without ceremony, whilst the company at hand makes record profits?

All the "wind", "sails" and boat metaphors won't change the fact that loyalty is a virtue that fits very poorly on both sides of employment.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#435

Post by astronads »

twh270 wrote: post #262
otikik wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you are saying. I am an engineer-turned-EM and you don't know me, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt: > Your job is NOT safe. Nothing will make execs happier than having this line of thought popularized amongst engineers. It will allow them to hire cheaper, and exploit existing engineers more. I think a better way to put it is: "A job is not your family, and a job is not your identity. Yo…

"Your job is not safe" does not mean you should do everything possible to keep your job -- allowing yourself to be unfairly exploited and abused. It means that you need to be responsible for yourself, and not allow thoughts like "I'm a valuable employee", or "I have too much seniority", or "my manager and I get along great" to convince you management won't lay you off or fire you or that they owe you anything. As oth…

This is good and realistic advice. Companies exist to make profit and returns for their investors/shareholders and ultimately they will do what this necessary to make that happen. Layoffs are just another (unfortunate) business transaction.

I was once in a meeting with an SVP who was going over what he was going to say in an upcoming all-hands meeting. He kept referring to employees as “resources” and I told him he should call them people or team members as resources was dehumanizing and made it sound like we’re just line items on a spreadsheet and pawns on a chessboard. He looked at me and said you’re right - that is how they look at things, but thanked me for reminding me of his audience. He was candid with me only because I was also high up in the org.

Companies are not your friend. The people above you in the org are not your friend. You are not special or different or immune or safe. Ultimately, you do have to look out for yourself. If a company is able and willing to terminate your job for financial reasons, you need to be willing and able to terminate your job for financial reasons too - on your own terms and with a better higher paying job lined up. It’s just another business transaction. Loyalty is dead. Act accordingly.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#437

Post by heresie-dabord »

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

> You can't trust anything anyone above you in the management chain tells you

See a recent HN thread: "Signs that it's time to leave a company" _ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38943040

When you see that management people can't be direct, plain-spoken, and authentic with employees, you should realise that there is a cronyarchy... and you are not in the special club.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#439

Post by Hypergraphe »

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

AMEN to that brother !

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#440

Post by caskstrength »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #242
teitoklien wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You add unions in tech, and then wonder why dev salaries in EU and the UK are so abysmally low.

> dev salaries in EU and the UK are so abysmally low I don't think they are. I think salaries in the US are astronomical, and it boggles the mind how in California a 22 year old React nerd can command a salary five times higher than, say, a teacher. It's all a matter of perspective. From my perspective, if you can sit on your sofa, build a website, and pull in €80k, you're doing just fine.

> It's all a matter of perspective. From my perspective, if you can sit on your sofa, build a website, and pull in €80k, you're doing just fine.

Where do you put the sofa? For locals who inherited and apartment somewhere in Stockholm or Berlin, or have been living in rent-controlled apartment for 20 years, sure, 50k after-tax is fine-ish. What about expats who didn't inherit a 500k Euro apartment from their late grandma?

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