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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#431

Post by aprilthird2021 »

mrangle wrote: post #279
knd775 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was always going to be an opinion war after 1200 massacred civilians, when a large portion of the other side doesn't take the primary tack of "stop bombing Palestine" but instead "Free Palestine". The West Bank shows what happens if they only stop being bombed without actually being free. Palestine needs to be free in order for there to be peace.

Your comment implies that Palestinian civilians can't have peace until Israeli territory is ceded back to them. This is in the context of October 7th and a the current Gaza seige. It is reflective of the loudest echo in the war zone. There won't be a single outcome but the most negative one for radicalized Palestinian civilians as a result. Hopefully, morally clearer voices will be raised higher.

No I think his comment implies Gazans see how Israeli settlers treat West Bank Palestinians (sometimes burning their homes while families are inside and laughing at whosoever dies) and think that they'd rather support strongmen who attempt to fight back against Israel.

It's the exact same mentality that drove normal Afghan people to support the Taliban.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#432

Post by lossolo »

mastazi wrote: post #42
sertbdfgbnfgsd wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. > If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views. That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other. N…

I don't think that parent is suggesting that platforms are actively prioritising one over the other. I think they are saying that the composition of users of these apps skews one way rather than the other due to pre existing stances, and the fact that the apps are not available in some markets. As a result, certain views are prioritised as a byproduct of the fact that all modern social media apps have an algorithm th…

The majority of the world is against Israel's occupation of Palestine, a stance that is reflected in numerous UN General Assembly votes. Holding a pro-Israel position in this context represents a very US centric view, which is not similarly echoed in the rest of the world.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#435

Post by pcthrowaway »

wolverine876 wrote: post #278
EvgeniyZh wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).…

> chants like "from the river to the sea" (meaning destroying Jewish country) What is the truth of that? I've seen Israeli advocates make that claim and many repeat it. I've also seen an explainer in legitimate source (maybe the NY Times?) say that it means both Palestinians and Jews should be free. Does anyone have some actual, authoritative information? Something from before October 7th might be good. > saying Isra…

My (current, possibly misinformed) understanding is that "from the river to the sea" refers to a Palestinian state that stretches from the west bank to Gaza. Under the current reality, I don't see how this would be accomplished without a mass genocide of (Jewish) Israelis.

I'm open to the suggestion that (some?) people chanting this hope for this to be accomplished without violence, but speakers at such events have also glorified the actions of Hamas on October 7th.

For what it's worth, I don't support the actions of Israel, or the occupation of West bank and Gaza. I support a free Palestine in the sense that West Bank / Gaza should be left alone. There's a good chance that without the blockade, those territories would better arm themselves and it would result in a war which would impact Israel much more significantly as West Bank + Gaza would likely move to reclaim Israeli land. But at this point I don't see an alternative without Israel continuing its egregious human rights violations and genocide of the Palestinian people.

Kind of a shit situation all around.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#436

Post by hypeit »

robertoandred wrote: post #349
etchalon wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the conditions in Gaza continue as they have for multiple generations now, the eradication of Hamas will just beget the founding a different group with the same approach, or near to.

The conditions in Gaza are the result of Hamas and similar groups. Israel ended their occupation of Gaza twenty years ago and dragged Israelis out. Israel invested in Gaza infrastructure, but Hamas ripped it out and used it to make weapons. Israel allowed Gazans to work in Israel, who then told Hamas where to attack. Israel tried ceasefire after ceasefire, but Hamas just sent suicide bombers and rockets. And when as…

Israel has a land, air and sea blockade on Gaza. The residents of Gaza are second generation refugees from the cities that Israel ethnically cleansed in Nakba in 1948. Israel also bombed Gaza's only airport. Israel has routinely murdered, sniped, arrested and abused all forms of non-violent protest such as the March of Return.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#437

Post by yard2010 »

underlipton wrote: post #322
ReptileMan wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response. Okay - then what should be Israel's response? For me what they are doing is the bare minimum with the minimum casualties from the options they have. Hamas is Gaza's government. Hamas has intertwined the civilian and the military infrastructure. Hamas has made sure that the civilian Palestinians will suffer if you targe…

>Okay - then what should be Israel's response? The same response I have concluded should have been the US' response to 9/11: turn the other cheek, and invest heavily in reconciling with "enemy" forces while rebuilding "enemy" infrastructure and institutions, while dealing with individual bad actors on a case-by-case basis as a matter of legal (rather than martial) procedure. And I'm not joking. I feel bad for Israeli…

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Re: The pro-Israel information war

#438

Post by prmph »

mandmandam wrote: post #310
ReptileMan wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Criticizing Israel’s response is not anti-Semitism- it is literally just criticizing the response. Okay - then what should be Israel's response? For me what they are doing is the bare minimum with the minimum casualties from the options they have. Hamas is Gaza's government. Hamas has intertwined the civilian and the military infrastructure. Hamas has made sure that the civilian Palestinians will suffer if you targe…

Your comment is entirely regurgitated Israeli propaganda that has been repeatedly debunked. I'll be as polite as I can about this, and take it one step at a time. > Okay - then what should be Israel's response? The world has been clear about this. Stop killing civilians and treat Palestinians as humans with rights. > what they are doing is the bare minimum with the minimum casualties from the options they have. That'…

[flagged]

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#440

Post by zlg_codes »

It is a disgusting waste of my tax dollars to send it to an imperialist group trying to settle an area that was never theirs. Journalists are killed more by Israel than the rest. Why, if they were satisfied and confident they are correct? Those are the actions of guilty souls. Same for the ADL; they hide behind accusations of anti-semitism if you criticize them at all. They have weak positioning and simply want to genocide other groups. No better than ISIS and the Taliban as far as I'm concerned.

Money sent to Israel could have gone to Ukraine. Instead, Americans sponsored the massacre of innocent Gazans. I didn't vote for that, most of us didn't vote for that. Why should we accept it, or approve of Israel's genocidal war? The least they could do is be honest about how much they hate people showing the world the truth.

I truly have no respect or love in my heart for human beings who are comfortable killing to cover up their war crimes. As an American I'm sick of my tax dollars going to a bunch of desert conflicts that won't improve life for anyone.

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