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Why scalpers can get tickets

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Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#431

Post by nayuki »

hamandcheese wrote: post #305
chongli wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone like Taylor Swift, the tickets would sell out at $2000 on day 1. Then what? Her fans burn down her private jet on the tarmac for being greedy. The entire reason performers want their tickets sold below market value is so that non-rich "real fans" can actually afford them. All of the other shenanigans going on are there to get around this issue (and the performers definitely get a cut) while protecting the…

If image is such a concern, sell (1/x) of tickets at the max possible price, give away the other (1 - 1/x) the day before the show for free. Ban transfers on the free tickets.

Who gets those (1 - 1/x) tickets? Will there be a massive queue? In that case, people are paying with time instead of with money. Time is not free, and opportunity costs are real.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#432

Post by nayuki »

rs999gti wrote: post #397
fragmede wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because artists don't want to play to an empty room. Even for a lot of money.

Standby tickets at the venue fixes this. Similar to airplane tickets, which can be oversold, standby tickets accommodate those who really need to use a ticketed service.

And how will standby tickets be rationed? By auction? By first-come-first-serve? You still have the same fundamental problem of scarcity.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#433

Post by compscigirl »

kortilla wrote: post #205
autoexec wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The First Sale doctrine is fine, hoarding ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoarding_(economics) ) and price gouging not so much. Rights come with responsibilities. Maybe I can buy up a pallet of toilet paper in the middle of a pandemic, but people would be right to think I was a total piece of shit if I did. Society's tolerance for parasites who do that kind of thing has a breaking point and when the people being nega…

That’s the sophomoric take. The only reason you had the opportunity to buy a pallet during a shortage in the first place is due to idiotic “price gouging” laws. During the pandemic the price of toilet paper should have been increased by an order of magnitude at the store level. This would prevent hoarding and it would make sure people who desperately wanted it could get it. Additionally, it would have incentivized pr…

Ah yes “the poors don’t deserve to afford toilet paper because market forces and capitalism!”

It’s amazing what tech bros making 6 figures will say from their ivory towers.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#434

Post by scott_w »

envsubst wrote: post #250
scott_w wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because, ironically, a show that only rich people can afford to attend will be pretty terrible. Rich people tend not to loudly enjoy the show, so the atmosphere isn't there. This is bad for the rest of the audience and for the performer. It's hard to put 100% in when all you can see is a bunch of people staring solemnly at you. It happens in football (soccer for my American friends) for clubs like Man Utd (and probab…

> Rich people tend not to loudly enjoy the show, so the atmosphere isn't there Citation needed. Rich people are the main audience at all organized events of all kinds. Do you think you can take you and your kids to an NFL game if you're poor? The main attendees of Taylor swift? Women in late 20s - mid 30s working corporate jobs.

Right here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37629176

I can’t speak to the USA sports, I’m specifically talking about English football which is generally quite affordable for most working class people. I’ve bought tickets to games myself.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#435

Post by bodhiandphysics »

lolinder wrote: post #414
bernawil wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This take is widespread and it's just wrong. Most artists are hired by organizers and just paid a flat fee for performing, the company then selling and promoting the event. Can you imagine what it'd take to organize an international tour otherwise? Some huge names may also run their own operation (Pearl Jam where notorious for this) but still just some of the time, they'll still do some shows in festivals or differen…

> Most artists are hired by organizers and just paid a flat fee for performing, the company then selling and promoting the event. This is true, but most artists aren't insanely popular with millions of fans, most artists are little-known gig workers. In this thread we're talking about the big names, which can and do operate by different rules. The Guardian interviewed several artists in these big tour situations and…

Even the biggest artists still need promoters (Taylor Swift has a promoter... it's Massina Touring Group, Beyonce is with Live Nation). The reason is obvious... star's can't afford the capitol costs of their own shows. Renaissance had a capitol budget of over 100 million. Beyonce's net worth is about 500 million... she's not going to tie up 1/5th of her net worth in a single tour! For someone like Olivia Rodrigo, the economics are even worse. Guts probably will have a capital budget in the 10-20 million range (or higher!) but Olivia's net worth is about 5 million. The promoter's advance is what allows artists to actually have their tours. The promoters are the ones who actually own and sell the tickets. They have a lot of power over decisions like whether or not to use dynamic pricing.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#436

Post by anakaine »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #418
Fatnino wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me they could ban resales by making there be a name attached to each ticket. Just like the airlines. You need ID matching your ticket to get into the venue. No more scalpers.

They’re already doing that and it’s disgusting.

On the contrary, I think it's excellent. Turn up, show your ID along with your ticket, and you have not been screwed by a scalper.

Need a refund? Log on to the site, get a refund, and your ticket goes back into the pool for a round 2 public release.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#437

Post by slau »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #153
kelnos wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple fix for that: require the concertgoer to physically present the ID when arriving at the concert. They can also just disallow multiple tickets per ID. To clarify the proposed process: you buy one or more tickets online, and you're required to put full names to those tickets when you purchase them. You are not permitted to change those names later. You can return the tickets (minus some "restocking" fee), but th…

> Simple fix for that: require the concertgoer to physically present the ID when arriving at the concert. That doesn't fix it. The person whose ID it is actually wants to go to the concert. They show up with their ID and activate the other tickets sold by the scalper. > you buy one or more tickets online, and you're required to put full names to those tickets when you purchase them. Then you're back to pissed off cus…

You’re missing the point: every ticket has a name. Not the same single name on 4 tickets. Every ticket is personalised.

It doesn’t matter that one person can’t come. All the others can go. If you can’t go, you still can get refunded for your ticket cost.

If one person buys multiple tickets, they need to provide all the names of the people who are going. Just like when you book a plane ticket.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#438

Post by TeMPOraL »

mattmaroon wrote: post #404
TeMPOraL wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood there is no difference between what the comment I replied to is describing and what its parent is, because of the (brought by others elsewhere in the thread) fungibility of money. Whether the artists get their cut directly, or just enjoy cheaper venues because Ticketmaster happens to be owned by the same party that owns the venue, that's literally the same benefit - just instead of being paid directly, t…

Artists don’t pay for venues, promoters do, so they’re not cheaper, but your point that Ticketmaster has more revenue (and thus more to pay the artist) so they may get paid more indirectly is valid. But also, Ticketmaster has a monopsony. Or nearly so. One might argue (and many artists have ) that the artists would get paid more if there were a market for their tour rather than one company owning the vast majority of…

> One might argue (and many artists have ) that the artists would get paid more if there were a market for their tour rather than one company owning the vast majority of large venues.

I think that's where the "reputation laundering" angle comes into play. With its unique position, Ticketmaster gives artists plausible deniability. "Nothing we can do about it", "evils of capitalism", "a monopolist captured the market, government doing nothing", etc. - say artists, for whom the image they project is a core part of their market value. With a properly functioning competitive market, those same artists would have to either get much less, or answer some inconvenient question about ticket pricing.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#439

Post by AnthonyMouse »

slau wrote: post #437
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simple fix for that: require the concertgoer to physically present the ID when arriving at the concert. That doesn't fix it. The person whose ID it is actually wants to go to the concert. They show up with their ID and activate the other tickets sold by the scalper. > you buy one or more tickets online, and you're required to put full names to those tickets when you purchase them. Then you're back to pissed off cus…

You’re missing the point: every ticket has a name. Not the same single name on 4 tickets. Every ticket is personalised. It doesn’t matter that one person can’t come. All the others can go. If you can’t go, you still can get refunded for your ticket cost. If one person buys multiple tickets, they need to provide all the names of the people who are going. Just like when you book a plane ticket.

> You’re missing the point: every ticket has a name. Not the same single name on 4 tickets. Every ticket is personalised.

At which point you can no longer exchange one for a different name and have pissed off legitimate customers. That was the point of the suggestion that you could get 2-4 tickets in the same name -- so that you could change 1-3 of them in case of a conflict. But then scalpers can too.

Re: Why scalpers can get tickets

#440

Post by TylerE »

pgodzin wrote: post #178
TylerE wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh lawd. Most venues ARE hypercapitalists. That club down on the corner where the cool touring bands play? They take a 15-20% cut on the hands merch in exchange for the oh so vauablr service of providing maybe a beat up old folding table.

The valuable service is allowing the sale of merch within the venue, the table is free.

Then the band should be getting a cut of the bar, because they’re the reason all those people buying $7 beers are there.

Fair is fair, right?

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