We’re all just temporarily abled • Hacker News Board

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#431

Post by AnthonyMouse » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

zer8k wrote: post #345

mjmahone17 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the biggest thing the US could do is remove means-testing from our disability aid programs. Means testing usually does not feel like an effective way to distribute services. I want millionaires to be using government aid to help their children: just like with free education, when everyone who needs help uses it, the richer parents will demand, and ensure we pay for, higher quality for all. Everyone who is…

> I feel like the biggest thing the US could do is remove means-testing from our disability aid programs. The problem isn't the means testing the problem is it's applied with broad strokes like all well meaning but inevitably awful government work. First, everyone pays into disability. So everyone should be able to get their share when necessary. Second, means testing includes things like housing, retirement accounts…

> Every "class" of disability is not equal and so we shouldn't treat them exactly the same.

You're making the argument for this dystopia:

https://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

The point of government assistance isn't to make everyone the same, it's to provide a baseline. Someone in such a poor state that they can't work at all still gets a roof over their head.

Someone else can use the money to go to college or start a business, and society has an interest in promoting that because it yields returns. There is even an argument for investing more in people with more potential.

But in both cases the government is terrible at doing the evaluation as a result of politics and bureaucracy, so the right answer is for everyone to get the same.

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#432

Post by maxbond » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:30 PM UTC

psychoslave wrote: post #143

> 1 in 5 people currently have a disability. 100% of people will have some form of disability in their lifetime. That would mean no one will ever die in their best abilities. I think that is a claim that can easily proven wrong, for any reasonable definition of best abilities.

"100%" doesn't mean "there are no nitpicky edge cases," it means, "this includes you, yes you, this is relevant to you."

It is completely normal to use language that is not entirely precise. It isn't a criticism to point this out.

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#433

Post by maxbond » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

croes wrote: post #32

>100% of people will have some form of disability in their lifetime. Wrong. You could die suddenly in peak condition without ever having a disability.

I addressed this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/edit?id=37212689

> "100%" doesn't mean "there are no nitpicky edge cases," it means, "this includes you, yes you, this is relevant to you."

> It is completely normal to use language that is not entirely precise. It isn't a criticism to point this out.

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#434

Post by omeze » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:35 PM UTC

Theres a great guide from Microsoft on this (mentioned in the reply to this HN comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30062178)

We’ve all had to open a door with our hands full and thanked the wheelchair button by the door, or tried to watch a movie with the flu and a stuffed head so we snapped on CC.

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#435

Post by fragmede » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

Jiro wrote: post #414

WorldMaker wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point though. The rich already have all the benefits, plus more, but we also make the poor spend a lot of time, money, effort, and stress on "proving" they are poor to get the baseline benefits just so the rich "can't" use them (even though the truly rich have access to better and more services). If the rich already have plenty of access to stuff why are we forcing the poor to go through all these extra "p…

Unfortunately, the desire to soak the rich is a thing. (A sentence that is not seen very often.) Of course, the problem isn't really the rich . There aren't enough of them to strain the assistance budget even if they do all take the free lunch. The problem is the people who are richer than the ones who are eligible, but aren't actually rich. There are a lot more of them, and the money to give them all free things may…

Given that children are our future, making sure all of them get a good healthy nutritious lunch behoovs us all. Even the not destitute, and not wealthy ones. If we have to have fewer stealth bombers and aircraft carriers to pay for that, then so be it. But of course trading one for another in order to be able to afford it makes sense if you think of the whole of the US economy as a one househole, with no control over monetary policy like the interest rate. Except it isn't. Look at how willingly spending is increased on military projects, and not the projects themselves. If we wanted to have the money to pay for it, we could.

It's just this idea that someone undeserving might get something for free. This makes sense for adults, but children, for whom we have laws preventing them from having jobs, can't have jobs.

Don't buy into the idea we don't have the money to pay for it, we do. Monetary policy allows us to create money out of thin air. If we treated this like the emergency it is, we could afford it. We don't do it for other reasons, but it's not a money thing.

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#436

Post by tuanx5 » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

tycho-newman wrote: post #235

More people should read Disability Visibility.

I just started it and also recommend it!

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#437

Post by scarby2 » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:45 PM UTC

Jiro wrote: post #414

WorldMaker wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point though. The rich already have all the benefits, plus more, but we also make the poor spend a lot of time, money, effort, and stress on "proving" they are poor to get the baseline benefits just so the rich "can't" use them (even though the truly rich have access to better and more services). If the rich already have plenty of access to stuff why are we forcing the poor to go through all these extra "p…

Unfortunately, the desire to soak the rich is a thing. (A sentence that is not seen very often.) Of course, the problem isn't really the rich . There aren't enough of them to strain the assistance budget even if they do all take the free lunch. The problem is the people who are richer than the ones who are eligible, but aren't actually rich. There are a lot more of them, and the money to give them all free things may…

> Of course, the problem isn't really the rich. There aren't enough of them to strain the assistance budget even if they do all take the free lunch. The problem is the people who are richer than the ones who are eligible, but aren't actually rich. There are a lot more of them

Welcome to the squeezed middle. Don't make enough to be truly comfortable but too much to be eligible for government assistance.

> and the money to give them all free things may just not exist.

Though if we had a functional legislature we could make this money exist simply by bumping the tax rate in the relevant income bands so that the extra expenditure is covered by the higher taxes.

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#438

Post by floxy » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:45 PM UTC

jnovek wrote: post #280

Justsignedup wrote: post #233

How many people I know got hit by a car and had their life ruined horribly. Or a bad surgery. Things totally out of their control. We need to see disability as a cost to society we must pay, not a failure of individuals which is more or less what were treating it. The American disability system is basically proving (very painfully) that life is barely livable to get scraps of help. Like below poverty levels. I really…

It's not even pain-oriented. It's visibility-oriented. I deal with chronic migraine and it's extremely difficult to get on SSDI for that disorder (unless it is secondary to something more visible, like a TBI). Other invisible chronic pain conditions (e.g. fibromyalgia) are similarly dismissed.

Off-topic, but have you tried a CGRP Inhibitor? That's a newish class of drugs specifically developed for migraine. Aimovig has been game changing for me.

https://www.webmd.com/migraines-headaches/cgrp-inhibitors-fo...

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#439

Post by tayo42 » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:48 PM UTC

bowsamic wrote: post #400

JimtheCoder wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have never seen anyone in your gym bench 2 plates...well...I am not sure what to say to you. Maybe find a different gym? The person I was responding to is talking about SS, why 5/3/1 is more appropriate, and things of that nature. If he MAXED out at a 225 bench, a 325 deadlift and a 275 squat, he has no business really talking about this sort of stuff. You don't even need a structured program to hit those numb…

Why would I find a different gym just because people around me aren't lifting as much as you want them to be? I'm a 28 year old man and I can only bench 35kg (~77lbs) so why would I want to be around a bunch of people lifting 100kg+? > If he MAXED out at a 225 bench, a 325 deadlift and a 275 squat, he has no business really talking about this sort of stuff. You don't even need a structured program to hit those number…

225 is about the low end of taking lifting seriously as a hobby. Hes right, you can get to those lifts without much structure. just eating right, and being consistent for a couple years will get you there without trying to optimize beginner programs.

Your view of what can be done in the gym is distorted by the gym you are in.

Re: We’re all just temporarily abled

#440

Post by scarby2 » Mon, Aug 21, 2023, 5:52 PM UTC

citruscomputing wrote: post #392

zer8k wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like the biggest thing the US could do is remove means-testing from our disability aid programs. The problem isn't the means testing the problem is it's applied with broad strokes like all well meaning but inevitably awful government work. First, everyone pays into disability. So everyone should be able to get their share when necessary. Second, means testing includes things like housing, retirement accounts…

Something my therapist pointed out to me is that obesity is directly linked to childhood and intergenerational trauma; calling it self-inflicted is not accurate. Even if we're focused on healthy eating, food deserts exist. No man is an island, &c. Also, to cite an HN darling[0], obesity is, at the very least, a lot stranger and more complicated than CICO. > we also need to prevent the exploitation of disability progr…

> Something my therapist pointed out to me is that obesity is directly linked to childhood and intergenerational trauma; calling it self-inflicted is not accurate. Even if we're focused on healthy eating, food deserts exist. No man is an island, &c.

The idea that obesity is self inflicted runs contrary to our current understanding not just of psychology but of physiology. Most people don't have a constant struggle to maintain a healthy weight generally people with obesity even if they lose weight have to work extremely hard to not regain that weight and most fail.