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Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

electrek.co

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Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#431

Post by [deleted] »

umvi wrote: post #241
LocalH wrote: post #228

Rent-seeking is the true American way, it seems. Good on the hackers. Good on everyone who helps to liberate us from the overreach of big business.

Is it rent seeking/overreach? I make a video game and charge $50 for it. Later I make a DLC and charge $25 for it. Is your claim that if I keep them as separate purchasable downloads, I'm not rent seeking? But if instead combine the game and dlc into a single executable (to simplify build and distribution) and put the dlc behind a software lock, somehow that is now rent seeking/overreach and I deserve to have hackers…

[deleted]

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#432

Post by liendolucas »

ulamel wrote: post #424
liendolucas wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it is that you're supposed to own the car and every feature you paid for it.

big tech is trying to erase this concept from the consumer mind. Assuming someone tried to do everything legally (not pirating) when was the last time anyone "owned" anything. Music, Movies, TV shows, Software, you don't own any of it you are simply paying for server space.

You couldn't have stated that more clearly. Is a disgrace. We're basically headed to rent features of all kinds. It's terrible.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#433

Post by myself248 »

wongarsu wrote: post #408
Cagrosso wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the feature is built in to the car from the factory and disabled via software so they can charge more then you are already paying for the parts and lugging around the added weight in the vehicle thus costing you more in fuel. Software locking a hardware feature that is integrated is an awful practice. Telsa chose to do this presumably to only have to buy a single seat configuration and streamline installs so they…

For many features it makes sense. Heated seats for example have trivial hardware costs. It's basically a couple resistive wires, plus the necessary controls. The process costs of manufacturing some cars with and some without heated seats likely far exceed the cost of the heated seats themselves, so it's cheaper to just put them in every car. But heated seats are a great upselling opportunity, people are willing to pa…

Back in the day we used to just call those "standard features" and every car had them.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#434

Post by mbesto »

LocalH wrote: post #271
umvi wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it rent seeking/overreach? I make a video game and charge $50 for it. Later I make a DLC and charge $25 for it. Is your claim that if I keep them as separate purchasable downloads, I'm not rent seeking? But if instead combine the game and dlc into a single executable (to simplify build and distribution) and put the dlc behind a software lock, somehow that is now rent seeking/overreach and I deserve to have hackers…

Even though that is not exactly the issue I refer to, I still say yes, that is my claim, from a moral perspective. If the content is on the disc or shipped as part of the files of the base game, then it should be accessible without additional purchase. Otherwise, you're undercharging for the original deliverable, and overcharging for the actual "downloadable content". Imagine this taken to the logical extreme. I sell…

> I still say yes, that is my claim, from a moral perspective.

I personally do not like services that exhibit rent-seeking behavior, but what, precisely, is IMMORAL about the practice?

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#435

Post by culi »

jcuenod wrote: post #270
coolspot wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your car is filmed and recognized by other teslas.

That's why I also rotate license plates and repaint my car twice a year.

you're joking, but there's a whole genre of "adversarial fashion"[0][1] dedicated to making clothing that spams these sort of public data recognition services. Hoodies with license plates, face masks with weird facial features, etc. Often optimized against actual neural networks too

[0] https://adversarialfashion.com/

[1] https://www.capable.design/

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#436

Post by pkaye »

liendolucas wrote: post #348

> Software-locked features that need to be activated by the owner paying or subscribing to a service are becoming increasingly popular in the auto industry. Sorry, WHAT? People should absolutely boycott companies that try to squeeze bucks in this miserable way.

BMW has plans for locking features behind subscriptions like seat heaters, heated steering wheels, recording from your car's camera, etc.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/12/23204950/bmw-subscription...

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#437

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

knodi123 wrote: post #391
robterrell wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I got CarPlay on the used BMW I bought. Gave some guy in Thailand my VIN and $60, he sent me firmware to install, and now I drive around with working CarPlay and the vague notion that I've maybe been p0wned in ways I don't fully understand.

When your car idles, it's contributing to his Folding@Home account rank

More likely it’s mining crypto.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#438

Post by dgunay »

eschneider wrote: post #245
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL. It seems like it should probably be covered anyway, without the notification. Assumed consent would cover updates and improvements. No-one is consenting to their car being crippled, surely.

It gets me wondering how well Teslas will function with zero connectivity w/ Tesla. I mean, if the company goes under or (more likely) they drop support for older models, do older cars get bricked and disabled like clients for a multiplayer game that's gone offline?

I doubt they'll completely brick (the car can reboot itself mid-drive while still having throttle/brakes/steering) but I could see most/all infotainment features ceasing to function.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#439

Post by rootusrootus »

fluoridation wrote: post #87
rootusrootus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of a customer, what is the difference between a heated seat that doesn't work because it doesn't exist, and one that is locked out by software? Assuming the customer isn't paying up front for that feature. Some people don't want to pay for heated seats. Turns out the manufacturer found it cheaper to just include the hardware anyway rather than differentiate on the production line. What's the big…

>Some people don't want to pay for heated seats. Turns out the manufacturer found it cheaper to just include the hardware anyway rather than differentiate on the production line. If it's that cheap then it should just always be included, period. Otherwise it's just transparent greed. Why charge your customers extra for something that costs you literally nothing extra? Why not do the same for everything? The radio vol…

> Why charge your customers extra for something that costs you literally nothing extra?

Because that's not how business works, whether cars, computers, or any other widget. The cost of manufacturing is only tangentially related to the retail value.

Your examples, while contrived, could easily work the same way. As long as the customer knows what they're buying, and there are other choices on the market, then we will find out pretty quickly how valuable a non-binary volume knob is.

You may not want to know the answer to that one, if you pay much attention to airline ticket pricing and consumer behavior.

Re: Hackers manage to unlock Tesla software-locked features

#440

Post by silisili »

867-5309 wrote: post #341
zapdrive wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also change my facial hair style 4 times a year. Will start getting plastic surgery twice a year starting next year.

sounds like a slippery slope to voluntary hip surgery for gait correction

Not sure if it's changed now, but just wearing flip flops used to defeat gait recognition...
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