Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study • Hacker News Board

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#431

Post by silverpepsi » Wed, Apr 26, 2023, 8:53 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #320

jacquesm wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect they meant Chomsky.

I thought so as well, but a quick web search suggests that Noam Chomsky speaks English and Hebrew. (It's a shame that Noam Chomsky is the most famous linguist, because he's so far from the best or most relevant one.) See also eg https://www.reddit.com/r/chomsky/comments/8ght5y/what_langua...

I found this and I don't think there's any good proof he is bilingual...I will not set the bar so high for a coworker or friend but as a linguist I don't buy "used to be but I forgot it"

"He was once fluent in Hebrew, but told an Israeli journalist that he was now rusty, and conducted the interview in English."

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#432

Post by mejutoco » Wed, Apr 26, 2023, 10:02 AM UTC

pazimzadeh wrote: post #277

mejutoco wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scientific method seems to me language-based. How to come up with hypotheses, however, seems to me exactly as you mention. They just pop out of nowhere, like a sudden inspiration that has been processing in the background and now just clicks.

I am not sure what you mean by the scientific method. The scientific method can be as simple as trial-and-error or observation, such as the idea that maybe you shouldn't eat a certain berry if you just watched someone eat one right before they passed out and started foaming at the mouth. Animals without highly developed language do this all the time. There is no doubt that writing out or sounding out your reasoning c…

Thanks for the thoughtful post. I am a bit late, but I meant coming up with a Hypothesis and validating it through empirical evidence. Connecting these two explicitly needs logic (when I do x y happens) and, IMHO, logic needs language (or at least seems to have a relationship with language).

I guess if animals can do this, we have to options: either animals have language (even if basic) or the scientific method does not require language. I see merit in both arguments.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#433

Post by GoblinSlayer » Wed, Apr 26, 2023, 2:00 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #406

olddustytrail wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you haven't actually learned any great skills through avoiding learning languages? Why do you think that bolsters your idea?

Because Mister Offensive Tone, I know that there are trade offs to everything and sacrifices to be made with each choice. And I am not convinced that all that time I spent learning those other languages was spent wisely. I have also noticed by moving to a country which is hyper focused on everyone learning many languages that it creates a ton of resentment and loss of other abilities, for example reduced STEM skills.…

Right, learning many languages is subject to diminishing returns. European languages look barely distinguishable to me, so learning them would be a waste of time.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#434

Post by wolverine876 » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 12:13 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #279

wolverine876 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> isn't suddenly going to make you better at math or physics or geography There are other forms of intelligence. Plus, I'm not so sure you are right about those. Finally, it might be useful to read what people have written in other languages about those topics.

> There are other forms of intelligence. It obviously wasn't meant as an exhaustive list. > Plus, I'm not so sure you are right about those. I've yet to have my other languages besides English help me with studying of other concepts unless they were strictly locally focused. Even my French didn't help in Canada where it is more used as a means of exclusivity than one of inclusivity and communications. > Finally, it m…

There's always more to read in any language, but I'm not looking for more, I'm looking for the best, and they are certainly best read in their original languages. Shakespeare in Spanish can't be the same. I want to read Descartes in French, the great philosophers in Mandarin (or whatever form of Chinese they wrote in), etc.

You can assert there's no value to you, but many assert otherwise. I'm not sure there's value in our individual assertions.

Also, there's a lot of evidence that language drives cognition; that how we perceive and think about the world is constrained and influence by our language, and that other languages enable us to see and understand the world in other ways.

Re: Bilingualism affords no general cognitive advantages: Study

#435

Post by wheels » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 10:26 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #430

wheels wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, probably the chancellor and foreign minister were the only two from their generation that were educated, internationally minded and don't speak English.

Huh? What makes you think they don't speak English? Angela Merkel can definitely speak English.

Her English is pretty bad. The commenter I was replying to insisted all internationally minded Germans speak excellent English. That's false for Angele Merkel and Guido Westerwelle, and it's literally impossible to find more high profile counterexamples.