There's something off about LED bulbs • Hacker News Board

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#431

Post by jdcarter » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

derbOac wrote: post #58

eig wrote: post #6

The irony of this article is that the author is suffering from “too much choice”. LEDs have so much more capability than fluorescent and halogen bulbs that the burden has fallen on the consumer to sort out what dimmability, temperature, and lumens they need. It used to be that you only had one option so you didn’t have to think about it. Anyone who works in stage lighting or art knows that light is complicated. We sh…

I had a similar reaction to the article. I actually am opposed to bans on traditional incandescent bulbs but vastly prefer LEDs and have no desire to go back to them. Using LEDs was a shock to me initially mostly because, as you point out, with traditional household incandescents there wasn't a whole lot of options. So suddenly when I had to pay attention to color profiles and so forth more carefully, I wasn't expect…

I've had very good luck with the integrated fixtures. I have a number of them in my house and only one has failed (of maybe a dozen). This is a lot lower than the failure rate of LED bulbs. They are far brighter than the lights they replaced, and I personally like their lower profile. I also installed a number of the integrated fixtures in my father's house, and the increased brightness helps him quite a bit (he's 80).

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#432

Post by shanecleveland » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

I replace the standard size LED bulbs more than any other bulb. Of all new bulbs in a new construction home from 2016, I do not have any original standard size LED bulbs (mix of open, enclosed and outdoor applications).

I still have original incandescent bulbs, fluorescents and in-ceiling LED can bulbs in place. I'm not sure what makes the flood-style LED can bulbs so much better. I have not replaced a single one indoors. Same mfr. as the standard size LED bulbs (Fleir, sp?). I have not found a good brand of the standard size LED replacement bulbs.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#433

Post by anoojb » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:17 PM UTC

shanecleveland wrote: post #432

I replace the standard size LED bulbs more than any other bulb. Of all new bulbs in a new construction home from 2016, I do not have any original standard size LED bulbs (mix of open, enclosed and outdoor applications). I still have original incandescent bulbs, fluorescents and in-ceiling LED can bulbs in place. I'm not sure what makes the flood-style LED can bulbs so much better. I have not replaced a single one ind…

Same story. Wondering if there’s a truly resilient Standard 60W LED bulb in the market at all, and if not why?

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#434

Post by antiterra » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

There’s a bit of a basilisk with the cheaper LEDs (though sometimes also the ones permanently installed on ceiling fans, sometimes luxury brand car accent lighting) where once your learn you can see flickering trails following movement, you can’t avoid seeing it again. Plenty of people don’t notice, don’t tell them.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#435

Post by nix0n » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #125

s_dev wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>With LEDs, what's the "I don't want to deal with this, I just want something that will work as intended and not introduce weird artifacts"? That sounds like an ideal situation the free market should be fixing -- so why isn't it?

I think it does? I go into a home improvement store, grab a dimmable bulb on the warmer side, and screw it in. That's pretty much the sum total of my dealing with LED bulbs.

The problem is that the "dimmable" LEDs I have aren't actually dimmable, they just get flickery.

The article has a similar sentiment: it's hard to translate from what the box says to how it'll actually perform in the real world.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#436

Post by tablespoon » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #24

There's a lot wrong with LEDs in general and retrofit (E27 bulbs) in particular. In no particular order - LED emitters driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Power supplies driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Poor CRI and SSRI - Flickering - Dim-to-warm is uncommon - Poorly designed power supplies that age and fail quickly - The same light quality is vastly more expensive to achieve wit…

> There's a lot wrong with LEDs in general and retrofit (E27 bulbs) in particular. In no particular order

If all that's true, it explains my experience that LEDs have totally failed to live up to their promise. Sure, they use less power than incandescents, but they're far more expensive and also more finicky. They were supposed to last a decade, but I'm lucky if I get a year or two out of them. I wonder what the environmental impact is when you factor in e-waste and manufacturing costs.

About the only clear win for me is they run much cooler, which is nice when you have underpowered AC (or no AC).

> - LEDs mix exceptionally poorly, making things even more expensive

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but (compared to incandescents), different models of LED differ significantly in light characteristics and start up time. More than once I've had to replace all the bulbs in a fixture, because I couldn't buy and equivalent replacement for one that failed.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#437

Post by zippergz » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #371

zippergz wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please link me to a 95+ CRI bulb available at Home Depot or Lowe's.

Greater than 95 or including 95? Most of the Philips brand dimmable LEDs have a CRI of 95. The eco smart is crap at 80 and that’s to be excepted from the cheap house brand. The in ceiling lights I bought to replace a bottom dollar Amazon light was are 94 and I’m pretty sure I bought the cheapest I could that would change temp to match my existing ones. Your friend has shared a link to a Home Depot product they think…

Legit helpful reply. Thank you.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#438

Post by m463 » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

CrimsonCape wrote: post #370

ChadMoran wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been looking for solid high CRI LED bulbs, thank you. Lately I've been using the GE Reveal/Relax. They were better than the contractor grade bulbs that came with the house but still just... wasn't there. If you know any other manufacturers like this I'd greatly appreciate it if you could provide their links.

Budgetlightforum.com is the best source for flashlights and bulbs. Everyone there knows the metrics of what makes good light. GE Filled With Sun, Philips Ultra HD (available on Amazon, but from Canada), and some other Chinese brands are currently top of the chart for CRI 95+, RA 90+ bulbs

    Budgetlightforum.com

This is a rabbit hole of lighting tech.

I read the site and ... Now all my flashlights MUST run open source firmware.

Buy a flashlight with the Anduril UI and you will understand. (search on amazon)

With my flashlights:

- press and hold the power button to ramp up brightness from zero

- press and hold again to ram down brightness

- click twice to get the maximum brightness from the light (mostly)

there are lots of other modes available, designed to be harder to stumble into, plus customizations you can add.

Also, the good flashlights have an always-on dim green LED that lets you find the flashlight during a power outage.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#439

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

antiterra wrote: post #434

There’s a bit of a basilisk with the cheaper LEDs (though sometimes also the ones permanently installed on ceiling fans, sometimes luxury brand car accent lighting) where once your learn you can see flickering trails following movement, you can’t avoid seeing it again. Plenty of people don’t notice, don’t tell them.

Yeah, cheaper LEDs explain most of the complaints I'm reading here. Spend a few extra bulbs and you get a far better experience. I have no flickering LEDs, I won't tolerate them in my house.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#440

Post by int0x2e » Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 4:21 PM UTC

samtho wrote: post #379

cogman10 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the frustrating thing about LEDs that IDK we can change. If there was a "DC" light socket in the house we could have LEDs outlasting owners, and for cheap. Nearly all the expense of LED bulbs is the power supply. Everything else is dirt cheap. A single home DC power supply with ~200W of output could light an entire house, flicker free. What's even more frustrating is I think we could fix it. A national regula…

I am designing an off-grid cabin with a solar panel array charging a bank of batteries with a propane generator backup. I run ethernet as power with a custom designed PCB that terminates at the outlet side where it exposes a 20 watt USB charging port and an ethernet port. The lights are all basically cut 12v light strips inside of old light fixtures with a custom controller that also terminates PoE. The 48 volts that…

If you're willing to share your design, I'm sure there are other folks like myself who think this is a cool idea. I've wanted to do PoE (or passive PoE) for lights for a while now...