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The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

431–440 of 514 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#431
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just hard to wrap my head around what this trend would be, or why teens started picking up on it in 2012. One reason could be they started talking to each other more. Women and girls who had similar life experience shared them on the internet. This is how the whole Me Too movement started; the experiences shared during the Me Too movement were old, but it was the internet and social media which acted as a cata…

I could definitely see something like MeToo being a cause, but I still would put that as a "social media" effect and not a "women's/girl's irl day-to-day lives get worse" effect. Most of my family voted for Trump, but mostly for immigration & military reasons. I don't remember anyone I knew in real life saying anything negative about Hillary on the basis of her gender -- though, as always, there was plenty of it onli…

There was definitely also a lot of misogyny in the 2008 primaries as well, even coming from liberals and especially the media:

  Previous research has suggested that news and commentary concerning political candidates can vary based on a candidate's gender or race. Race and gender were especially salient in the 2008 U.S. presidential election. A content analysis of editorial cartoons was conducted to examine patterns in content or imagery related to race and gender. Editorial cartoons that featured Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and/or John McCain and were published during the primary season were analyzed. Cartoons featuring Obama were more likely to be favorable than those featuring the other candidates; those featuring Clinton were more likely to be unfavorable. Clinton was more often presented as ugly and small in size than was Obama. Clinton was shown perpetrating violence more often than the male candidates; she was also portrayed as the recipient of particularly gruesome violence. Some cartoons featured imagery or content that relied on racial or gender stereotypes; a qualitative analysis of these cartoons is provided. Overall, findings support previous research showing the continued relevance of race and gender in media coverage of political campaigns.
https://spssi.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1530-241...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the world is just getting depressing as hell for young people who see less and less of a future for themselves I heard exactly the same thing in the 1970s.

Compare housing costs in the 1970s vs now.

Compare the threat of global nuclear annihilation in the 1970s vs now.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a powerful part of the narrative for sure. But … ugh, I need to be less lazy and dig into the supporting material, actually, some of my questions may be answered there. The big one is “does that mean there’s more self-harm, or does that mean parents are more willing to ask for emergency help?”

If the latter then it'd affect boys and girls equally. The simplest explanation here is likely the right one i.e. the increase in mental disorders is real.

I don’t think that’s true at all. There are real differences between how we treat men and women. And the actual effect we’re seeing isn’t even addressed — if it’s because college campuses won’t tolerate dissent, why wouldn’t that affect men?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#434
> In our 2018 book The Coddling of the American Mind, Greg Lukianoff and I presented evidence that the same trends were happening in Canada and the United Kingdom—not just the rise in depression and anxiety, but also the overprotection of children, the rise of “safetyism,” and the shouting down of speakers on university campuses when students deemed the speaker to be “harmful.” It seemed that all the Anglo nations were setting up their children for failure in the same ways at the same time.

And there was exactly zero evidence of this having anything to do with it, and none of it really fits the bill of having "switched on" around 2010 or a little before (hint: facebook).

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#435
post #46

That’s interesting data. I wonder: is there any possibility that part of the change is because we’re telling kids that it’s okay to admit to depression? I.e., are we just reporting more accurately now?

There is also a feedback cycle - people open up about it more, reach a larger audience who sees this modeled/discussed, making it more likely for them to A) be aware in their own life and B) mirror and amplify. Bad metaphor - if we think of ideas spreading between people like neurons, we have increased the interconnectedness (social reach) and decreased the activation energy (removed stigma/provided language/triggere…

Yeah, this doesn’t seem totally implausible, although postulating it doesn’t mean it’s happening. More generally, there’s no doubt that we’ve vastly increased communication bandwidth and that could easily have effects. For a few years now I’ve been thinking about gatekeepers in old media as damping rods that prevented new ideas from spreading quickly. There are both positive and negative ramifications to removing those damping rods.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's see.. it was simultaneous and synchronized across the Anglophone countries in the early 2010s. It's sort of peculiar for Puritanism to appear suddenly and simultaneously in widely distant countries that share a common language but have different cultures, right? No, I think the change in phones and what they enabled in social media is a better explanation.

The decline in young people's sexual activity is a recent event: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-have-been-...

That started in Japan around 2000, a good ten years before the mental health crisis that struck kids at about 13 years of age in English speaking countries simultaneously.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think social media - which is not so much about media but about performative competition - is just part of the problem. Reality for kids seems so much more competitive and ruthless in every way. And there are so few resources available to them to help them deal with it. At the same time opportunities are shrinking and pressure to perform is increasing. It's not enough to be adequate, you have to be outstanding in l…

when my kids were born i was amazed how competitive getting into a good pre-school was. Then i was amazed how competitive getting in to a good elementary school was and now middle school. One year out and we're already discussing strategy for getting in to a good high school. When I was a kid you went to whatever school was in your neighborhood. On the other hand, when i was a kid my parents had no idea what a good s…

This has been the status quo in Asia for probably at least half a century

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#438
post #370

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First of all, I'm sorry I didn't know my meme! Second, you've linked to a photo that says something about Netflix, Twitter, Airbnb, Apple, Stripe, Lyft, Google, Salesforce, Facebook, Tesla, eBay, PayPal, and Microsoft. It's not clear to me what that's supposed to have to do with Hacker News moderation. It's not at all true that ideological battles are fine here for one side but not the other, as anyone can see for th…

[flagged]

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I wrote this reply as a comment edit originally, but I'm making this it's own comment.) I understood your comment to be against social acceptance of trans people, (and honestly still do. Admittedly this isn't a best-faith interpretation of your comment, but it made sense in the context I read it in. ) Therefore, my comment wasn't intended to be only about available medical treatment options (including surgical), but…

I have to admit I've had to try really hard to not get sucked into this side debate on the efficacy of transition. I've found conflicting data here, I'm willing to acknowledge it may be true that it leads to better outcomes for many individuals. In any case, as I've said, there's little I can act on there as I have no right to impose that kind of control on others. I am intrigued by the intersectionality of transitio…

That's not what I meant, exactly. I'm just trying to argue that we should allow people to transition (from a social perspective, not just a medical one) and respect them and their new gender.

(I don't think they're finding more social acceptance after transition, with some light exceptions as the realization and acceptance of their dysphoria allowes them to find more accepting social circles, and some probably are less accepted by their environment after.)

(I'm also not an expert at this, I've just been parroting some well-known takes but I've looked at research to back them up, as "Source: Reddit" isn't the most convincing)

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#440
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you can blame problems such as climate change, economic issues -- every generation had its own existential crisis: WW2, Korea, Vietnam, numerous recessions and until 1990, recent generations lived under the specter of the atom bomb. I think it's social media, that's what's really changed: Every single teenager is now comparing themselves against every other kid in the world instead of just their local pe…

20 years ago, when you finished your school day, week, or semester, you could go home, on vacation, etc., and not have any contact with your schoolmates unless you wanted to. Nowadays, you see them and they can interact with you or talk about you 24/7 on social networks. There's no escaping your bully by hiding at home anymore, as you can be publicly bullied on social platforms all the time. This is likely a terrible…

My daughter must be the exception to that rule - she actively ignores most messages.

She does, however, uncritically ingest way too much TikTok shit.

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