Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 730 posts

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#431

Post by [deleted] »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #117
azinman2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

>It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. I am skeptical of this claim. In my experience, it just enshrines a different set of beliefs into students rather than new paradigms of critical thinking.

[deleted]

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#432

Post by nonethewiser »

spacephysics wrote: post #359
rthomas6 wrote: post #264

Rant: I feel like most people haven't really thought about why colleges are so expensive now. It is because of the federally guaranteed student loans. It means there's pretty much no downside to banks loaning an arbitrarily large amount, because if the student doesn't pay it back, the government will. And since most 18 year old students have pretty much zero price sensitivity, and they now have unlimited funds, colle…

Fully agree. And to continue this, I think one step that would be accepted across the aisle (in lieu of total debt forgiveness) is to either severely cut or get rid of interest rates on school loans. The compound interest working against students is a major part of the predation in these loans. But banks need to make money? Have a one-time interest tacked onto the total loan amount that doesn’t change over time. This…

> Fully agree. And to continue this, I think one step that would be accepted across the aisle (in lieu of total debt forgiveness) is to either severely cut or get rid of interest rates on school loans.

I dont understand how you agree with the post yet come to this conclusion. If debt is the source of the problem why encourage more of it? The point is colleges can always raise prices because students can just take out bigger loans. This gets worse if you get rid of interest rates.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#433

Post by juve1996 »

HEmanZ wrote: post #349
briHass wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone that hasn't done manual labor really has no idea how rough it can be. I worked as an office-furniture-mover in my early 20s (Summers in college), and some days were pretty tough. Granted, that's pretty low on the manual labor skills spectrum, but even for a guy in prime physical shape, it's tiring and has elements of danger. Now that I'm double that age, the manual labor I've done like rewiring my house, insta…

I don’t think anyone idealizes those kind of physical labor jobs. Usually “the trades” is much more skilled manual labor: plumbing, hvac, welding, specialized mechanic work and repair, woodworking/carpentry, etc. No one says people should want a life of a mover, meatpacker, or ditch digger.

The idea that plumbers/hvac/welders etc don't have physical wear and tear is also a myth that needs dispelled.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#434

Post by nonethewiser »

lapcat wrote: post #338
nonethewiser wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I crazy or did Biden just try to pay for a bunch of student loans? Legality still pending AFAIK. Just because Obama may have ended one policy doesn’t mean they aren’t backstopped by the government. Either way the point remains that the debt cannot be dispelled through bankruptcy which makes them less risky for banks.

> Am I crazy or did Biden just try to pay for a bunch of student loans? Forgive, not pay for. > Legality still pending AFAIK. Oral arguments were heard by the Supreme Court a few weeks ago. > the debt cannot be dispelled through bankruptcy It can, actually, though it's difficult.

Therefor still pending.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#435

Post by mikeg8 »

jt2190 wrote: post #179

> Today, colleges and universities enroll about 15 million undergraduate students, while companies employ about 800,000 apprentices. In the past decade, college enrollment has declined by about 15%, while the number of apprentices has increased by more than 50%, according to federal data and Robert Lerman, a labor economist at the Urban Institute and co-founder of Apprenticeships for America. So in the last decade: A…

Demographic shift? There could have been (probably was) larger number of 18-24 year olds ten year than today.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#436

Post by juve1996 »

DenverCoder99 wrote: post #372
alsaaro wrote: post #88

As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work. Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving wor…

With the economic downturn coming, companies are really going to ask themselves who's necessary. Those white collar workers that have plenty of leisure time are going to suddenly be out of work, and will be forced into the blue collar market, only they are going to have to compete with blue collar workers that have been in the market for many more years than they have. Guess who the company's are going to hire... As…

There won't be many jobs. With the boon of cheap cash trade workers also cashed in, way overcharging for work that was half as much just a decade ago. But now home sales are grinding to a halt. Cash is no longer cheap. People can no longer cash in on their equity with rates rising. Already I've had work quotes half what they were just last year.

There's a reason many children of blue collar workers were told to go to college. Now we might need to readjust that thinking and balance it better. But it came from a place of understanding how hard that life can be.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#437

Post by syzarian »

dahfizz wrote: post #392
syzarian wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism does not lead to deaths and genocide. Concentrated, uncontested power does.

And communism leads to concentrated, uncontested power. The dictatorship of the proletariat will never dissolve itself once it gets absolute power.

It is possible to have communism without concentrated, uncontested power. We have seen no such implementation as of yet but it can happen. As with most revolutions there is a period of absolutism that follows its success.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#438

Post by nonethewiser »

mnd999 wrote: post #8
danielvaughn wrote: post #2

As someone who racked up nearly $80K in debt going to art school, I think they're making the right choice (mostly). In some cases it really makes sense to go to college, but it's a terrible model for many skills.

Did you have fun though? Because imho, that’s part of the point.

You dont pay 80k to have fun. And if you do then you can do a hell of a lot better than art school.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#439

Post by lapcat »

nonethewiser wrote: post #434
lapcat wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I crazy or did Biden just try to pay for a bunch of student loans? Forgive, not pay for. > Legality still pending AFAIK. Oral arguments were heard by the Supreme Court a few weeks ago. > the debt cannot be dispelled through bankruptcy It can, actually, though it's difficult.

Therefor still pending.

Yes. I was just adding some detail. We don't know exactly when the court will decide, but the case has been heard.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#440

Post by [deleted] »

sammalloy wrote: post #277
mythrwy wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Free thinking and well rounded" aren't things that seem to correspond with many current U.S college environments though. Colleges need to cost less. Much less. And they need to return to free inquiry with more education, and less administration and propaganda and fake studies low effort departments. Then what you say will be much more true and we will be in a better place.

> Colleges need to cost less. Much less. Conservatives have waged a targeted attack on US education by shifting the federal and state tax burden to students. This began with Ronald Reagan and ended with the Koch network. Conservatives intentionally did this because they believe the traditional academic system in the US produces liberals and democrats. By shifting the tax burden to students, they have disincentivized…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN