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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#431

Post by TMWNN »

panick21_ wrote: post #403
hef19898 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This question was, lest say, discussed between the EU and the US for litteraly decades regarding Airbus subsidies and Boeing subsidies. The former came directly the latter came through government contracts. Government contracts are one of the easiest ways to subsidize a company, and SpaceX got plenty of those.

There is a waste over estimation on how large SpaceX government contracts are. You are ignoring that Airbus is also getting additional government contracts. Arianespace gets massive infrastructure subsidy, they are gone get at least 5 billion all said and told for Ariane 6, and that does not cover the last 20 years of sub-component level development for things like the engine and the solid fuel. Lots of the testing a…

>Even in the 2010s they mostly launched Russian rockets developed in the 1960s.

Is that correct? Are/were Arianespace designs based on Russian rockets? I know that the US used Russian engines for years.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#432

Post by palata »

Ekaros wrote: post #322
0xDEF wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was little demand for non-GPS satnav. There is plenty of demand for non-Musk satcom.

Do we need satcom if we have good enough terrestrial communications? EU is reasonably densely populated. So why just not go with simpler and maybe even cheaper terrestrial solutions?

Because we've polluted the ground so much that it's hard for one company alone to really pollute significantly more.

But polluting space around Earth is brand new, so a few companies are rushing to leave their mark there.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#433

Post by palata »

sys42590 wrote: post #140
0xDEF wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was little demand for non-GPS satnav. There is plenty of demand for non-Musk satcom.

The whole controversy around Musk is mostly a North American topic. I'm pretty sure that most Europeans that were left out in the rain regarding useful Internet speeds would love to use Starlink (if they can afford it) no matter which crazy billionaire owns the satellites.

I am European and I hate Musk, but that's not the reason why I wouldn't use Starlink.

I just don't want commercial companies to send hundreds of thousands of satellites and pollute my sky, just to enable more consumption in a world that has passed its limits.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#434

Post by palata »

Ambolia wrote: post #84
concordDance wrote: post #44

Does it annoy anyone else that the title says "Musk's Starlink"? Yes, it was his idea and he is the main driving force and owns half of the company, but any project like this is a collaborative effort between tens of thousands of people.

Those thousands won't get blamed personally if it fails. But Musk will be.

Sure. I guess just like Musk got blamed personally for his screw up with Twitter employees all over the world? He did a whole bunch of illegal stuff there, I'm still waiting to see consequences.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#435

Post by palata »

pxmpxm wrote: post #191
j_san wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm european and dont like thousands of satelites swirrling around in the sky as well but I'd rather have government-founded satelites for the public benefit than from some way-too-rich sociopath's private company. Of course - this project would probably not exist without Starlink, so credit where credit is due. Personally I find it quite sad that we're destroying the night sky in the sense that before these projects…

> some way-too-rich sociopath's private company. I am certainly you've developed this view in November of 2022. Meanwhile any European stuck with DSL - which would be most of my family - would be ecstatic to get sensible bandwidth today.

Well if websites were not absolutely huge for no reason, we could certainly live with slower Internet connections.

Well except for TikTok and the likes, I guess. But at some point we should realise that those "improvements" are destroying the planet.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#436

Post by palata »

edgyquant wrote: post #427
uoaei wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should review the definition of "rural" then.

No he’s right and this is brought up here all the time. There are large swathes of America where people don’t have neighbors for miles (sometimes tens of miles) while there are comparatively few places in Europe that meet this definition.

I can't believe that Starlink is counting on those relatively few people to make money. There must be some other stream of revenue, right?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#437

Post by uoaei »

edgyquant wrote: post #427
uoaei wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should review the definition of "rural" then.

No he’s right and this is brought up here all the time. There are large swathes of America where people don’t have neighbors for miles (sometimes tens of miles) while there are comparatively few places in Europe that meet this definition.

Again, review the definition of "rural". Just pretending words mean what you want them to mean is quite literally, definitionally, bullshitting.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#438

Post by uoaei »

edgyquant wrote: post #380
uoaei wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, criticism of the US is of the "this is clearly harming more people than it helps" variety, while criticism of the EU is of the "look at what these silly people are trying to provide as a service to their citizens" variety.

Nah criticism from Europeans generally comes down, “look at dumb Americans doing things differently than us, don’t they know we’re objectively right about political and economic institutions?”

Do you have anything of substance to contribute, `edgyquant`?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#439

Post by IntelMiner »

edgyquant wrote: post #378
IntelMiner wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"burden they bear protecting the rest of the world's democracies" As an Australian, that's a pretty glowing interpretation of the US intervening where they aren't wanted or needed Was the US protecting 'democracy' when they annexed Hawaii, or how they've treated Cuba? Or Vietnam or South America or Iraq or any litany of other countries Hell. They helped depose Gough Whitlam because he dared threaten to nationalize ou…

You’re completely disregarding that they’re talking about the US being the armed forces of all western democracies and strawmanning about 19th-early 20th century imperialism (which Western Europe took part in far more than the US did.)

I did not realize that the Iraq War was "19th-early 20th century imperialism"

Nor the mid 1970's

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#440

Post by usrusr »

panick21_ wrote: post #365
usrusr wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly: any constellation built with pre-falcon9 rockets might be non-Musk, but it won't even be remotely starlink-like. They'd inevitably aim for orbits higher than "throwaway-LEO" and the much sparser constellations those orbits enable (lines of sight less constrained by horizon) will cause considerably more latency (far from geostationary-bad, but a meaningful quality difference) even if the inherent SNR drawback…

Amazon basically bought every available heavy lift rocket for the next decade in an attempt to compete with Starlink.

They did? Guess we might have to readjust the meaning of "state actor"..
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