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The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

431–440 of 565 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best description I've heard of why more diagnosis is better is that as a society we're moving up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs from level 2 "Safety Needs" to level 3 "Love and Belonging". For the first time in history there is psychological space to care about mental health and social issues en mass. So, of course, there's going to be an explosion of diagnosis.

That doesn’t strike me as a good thing. Maintenance of “safety needs” is part and parcel of finding love and belonging in the first place. If we’re offloading that all together, then yeah I can see how more and more get depressed and suicidal. They don’t have anything to live for when you get down to it.

That's not what moving up means; they're cumulative from the bottom up. You can't move up to the next level until all lower levels are consistently met.

Moving up means those needs are being met satisfactorily and can be maintained without prolonged attention. And if a lower level stops being met, your level will fall to that level until it is met again.

I.e., if you're hungry and don't know when your next meal is, then who the hell cares if you're anxious, angry, or happy? You have more pressing concerns.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#432
post #2

Another possible explanation is that we are simply diagnosing these kind of mental health issues better – due to decrease in stigmatization and/or more attention to it – but that our treatment is worse than doing nothing, and is leading to higher rates of self-harm and suicide. I have no idea if that's the case – and if it is a factor at all it probably doesn't account for all of it – but it seems something worth exp…

This is an intriguing idea which I think you should send Haidt's way, he seems to be willing to listen to the ideas of others and it's something worth considering. Not just counselors, also, it might include overuse of medications.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#433
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome for him. Parents dont want to hear what .000001 % actually have a chance to go pro? Every year after the season we always asked if they were still having fun. To us it was good skill building. Social,fitness, how to lose etc.

That sounds like the right attitude to me. Less of a "future Olympian" gamble and more of a method to achieve other things.

Exactly that. Good life skills. And guess what. They still play casual and have a blast are fit healthy and pretty mentally strong. (Proud dad eeking out). We have life long friends whos kids went more music or arts but with the same kind of attitude. Guess what. They are happy too. To us it was just helping them find stuff they liked doing.

The biggest rule was if you start a season you finish it. (There were exceptions for sure) it wasnt all roses but they learned from that too

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#434
post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

You're in a bubble. It's nowhere near that hard to get into non-elite universities, which the vast majority of college-bound students attend. Just keeping your grades up and doing well on a standardized test will get you into a good (well-regarded in at least some fields, very well-known at least regionally) state school—and the ones in the next couple tiers under that are even more lax. Then there are community coll…

Exactly, its a bubble many teens feel they are in, that's the problem.

It's easy to say years later "You're in a bubble", but that doesnt make the situation any better.

I'll likely look back on my life when I'm retired and say "I was in a bubble" worrying about housing prices and the cost of living, but that doesn't diminish its importance to me right now.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#435
post #79

While I don't doubt that social media can drive some of these mental health issues, I think most teenagers are simply stressed from the constant work that's necessary for the college admissions process. I'm 24, so I would have been a teenager in 2012, but I didn't have a smartphone until I was 16 or so. My high school experience consisted almost entirely of school, studying, and running (my primary extracurricular).…

This is exactly why I advocate for less breadth and more depth starting from high school. I really didn’t need literature, history, or art. I knew I was more of a math and science person early on. Why do kids need to be so well rounded when they already have a bias towards certain fields? Lets let them focus on what they are good at, and give them a little more free time on their hands.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#436
post #416

Digital society sucks, and to a degree modern society in general. There used to be religion, which you may dislike, but it offered social bonding at scale. You'd get to known an entire community, neighborhood, might make new friends or even find a spouse. Learn about people hobbies and form sub communities. Or you go to school. Or to work, where before globalization you'd have a stable local team that you'd get to kn…

> I sincerely mean it when I say that life used to better.

If there is anything I’ve learned in my old age, it’s that things were not better in the past. And while I don’t accept Steven Pinker’s optimistic claims about the fruits of progress as much as other people do, I think he makes a good baseline argument regarding how much progress we have made over the last century. It’s just that we have so much farther to go and that seems overwhelming at times, at least to me.

There’s a common cognitive bias known as nostalgia or rosy retrospection that makes people think the past was better, as well as any number of psych studies showing how this works and why people do it. The most common example is of a parent who only remembers the good times while their children remember the bad. I won’t bore you with the details, but you can look into this phenomenon for yourself.

With that said, you have listed some legitimate complaints about negative societal changes that have occurred over the last thirty years. That doesn’t mean or imply that everything was better in the past, but it would be accurate to say that some things have gotten worse while other things have gotten better, but mostly, humanity has achieved some measure of progress that makes even the most recent past look barbaric, IMO.

We have this idea in our head that progress and advancement and the uplifting of humanity (and its relationship with nature) should be neat and orderly, when in reality it’s extremely messy, gruesome, and violent, much like the labor pains of a woman giving birth.

If you were an alien and had never seen a human giving birth, you might think the mother to be was being attacked or suffering from a disease. I think progress is a little bit like that. Its appearance looks like chaos and suffering and pain, but the end result is a new form of life, a new form of living. That’s what we are experiencing.

I personally believe it is a dangerous error to believe the past was better, because it prevents people from looking towards a better future, as they seek to repeat the same mistakes from the past, over and over again, endlessly seeking a Golden Age that never was.

The other problem with looking in the rear view mirror, is that you neglect working to improve the present, which inevitably informs all future progress. If we are looking backwards, then we are neglecting the present and its subsequent future, so we have to be wary and cautious about people who tell us that things were better in the past, as it tends to impose a false historical mythology on the past, present, and future, disrupting the timeline of progress in all directions.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#437
post #2

Another possible explanation is that we are simply diagnosing these kind of mental health issues better – due to decrease in stigmatization and/or more attention to it – but that our treatment is worse than doing nothing, and is leading to higher rates of self-harm and suicide. I have no idea if that's the case – and if it is a factor at all it probably doesn't account for all of it – but it seems something worth exp…

Why is more diagnosis better diagnosis? I hear this constantly, literally every time people point out we might be calling people mentally ill now that we wouldn't have called mentally ill 20 years ago people go "wow we must be diagnosing people better". To me better diagnosis would be reflected in things like the suicide rate dropping, drug abuse falling, general health metrics improving, and so on, not in simply inc…

Having a diagnosis also gives you a set of tools to actively deal with your issues. Personally I have trouble with avoidant personality disorder, and I really wish I had gotten diagnosed earlier. Maybe school and my early career would not have been such a dumpster fire if I understood how to properly deal with myself back then.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#438
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blue-collar construction workers and farmers that I know all thought the lockdowns were stupid and ignored the rules. Financial stability or lack thereof was not the reason.

What lockdown rule could farmers possibly be breaking more than programmers did? They live on a farm usually right?

Lol have you ever been to a farm? Farmers go to social events, visit friends, etc just like anyone else. Most of them laughed at lockdown rules and kept living their lives just as before.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The increase in suicide rates for both genders (but especially females) are astounding. I really don't believe that any changes in treatment have been so radical as to cause this to manifest the way it has.

Tell someone with an issue with their physical condition that it is because of diet and lack of exercise and many would change habits, tell them it's due to a incurable but perhaps treatable cancer and some will chose suicide. Tell kids that they are unhappy due to choices made in day to day life and they might change those choices, tell them it's due to a incurable but maybe treatable issue with their brain and some…

I don't know enough about the topic to judge most of what you've said, but I can appreciate something about your final point and something you suggested in a later comment: most people feel anxious about meeting someone, going to a new place, interviewing, presenting in public, etc. Or they put off work without a deadline. These are common and largely modern problems.

We might be able to revise society/expectations to address this, separately to how we diagnose/label problems.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic began around 2012

#440
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly see value in having scars, both the physical and mental varieties. Scars create resilience. We saw this during the recent pandemic. The upper-middle class "high achieving, high anxiety" types who had never faced any real danger or hardship were the most likely to panic and demand all sorts of ridiculous lockdowns and mandates, even though the vast majority of them were never at any significant risk. Wherea…

There is no evidence that scars are an inherently better tissue than non injured tissue. Torn ligaments, cut tendons, skin marring from burns, etc… these don’t bounce back 110% from their original.

You missed the point there. Going though hardships and injuries (to an extent) builds mental resilience and the ability to accept risks without succumbing to irrational panic.
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