Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says • Hacker News Board

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#431

Post by jemmyw » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 11:18 AM UTC

ShredKazoo wrote: post #427

benced wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineering is a high prestige job. Rightly or wrongly, most female dominated jobs are not.

CEOs and politicians are even higher-prestige jobs dominated by men, but the sense of moral urgency around achieving gender balance in those jobs seems significantly lower. Police officers have a lot of power in society & are mostly male. I think there's a strong case to be made that bringing women into the force would be very beneficial, in terms of improved handling of sexual assault cases and reduced police violen…

That's not true, at least in the UK the gender and racial balance of the police force comes up a lot in the media.

It's often mentioned about UK politicians too, ie the gender balance of cabinet positions.

Perhaps your view of the apparent moral urgency is because you're in the tech industry and therefore closer to it?

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#432

Post by psychoslave » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 11:21 AM UTC

jb1991 wrote: post #393

psychoslave wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The old religions you were at least judged by an omnipotent being who could see the whole picture Unless you believe some deity ever really went in person at all these trials, you do realize that this is a complete indoctrinated perspective, don’t you? In all cases, this is only humans judging humans. >As if punishing a bad person is a virtue. And as if there's nothing wrong about lynching an innocent person. There…

I believe the parent is using the word “religion” in a different way than you seem to realize, and in a much more general way, similar to how this concept is for example used in archaeological histories of human kind, i.e. the Sapiens book. Religion, in this sense, is not specifically referring to some specific practice of spiritual beliefs, but rather a more general shared abstract perspective among a group of peopl…

Thanks for this feedback.

I am not sure I get the proper perspective after it, but it is still nice to have a feedback like that.

To my mind religion on a broad view includes practices like animism, for sure. So I would tend to believe I get your point.

On the other hand, a statement like "The old religions you were at least judged by an omnipotent being who could see the whole picture" seems to precise to match a broad sense of religions. Animism for example doesn’t imply that such a powerful entity exists and judges everything you do.

Actually, apart from Abrahamic ones, which religion out there would fit such a restrictive set of beliefs where there is an omniscient omnipotent being so concerned of judging human individuals?

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#433

Post by fennecfoxy » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 11:26 AM UTC

grapehut wrote: post #72

These stories leave a bad taste in my mouth. It hasn't yet gone to court, so the guys allegations could be really be anything from the God's honest truth all the way to a complete fabrication. Yet there is a huge amount of irreparable damage by public stories like this. I was once personally on the receiving end of a complete false sexual harassment allegation from a coworker almost at random (someone I had almost no…

Ha! But if the victim had been a woman, generally your response would've been more outrage than victim blaming like it is, now.

If we're going to tell male victims that we don't believe them & that they have to prove it we can do the same for female victims; at the moment for female victims, it is treated very seriously from the outset.

However, I almost didn't bother commenting because this distinction between male and female victims will never end, it'll never change and I just have to live knowing that nobody actually really gives a shit about what happens to me; even sitting outside the heterosexual bubble, y'all still reach in with your traditional gender roles BS "men r strong & always do bad things", "women r weak and r always good angels".

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#434

Post by fennecfoxy » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 11:29 AM UTC

notrealme1234 wrote: post #133

grapehut wrote: post #72

These stories leave a bad taste in my mouth. It hasn't yet gone to court, so the guys allegations could be really be anything from the God's honest truth all the way to a complete fabrication. Yet there is a huge amount of irreparable damage by public stories like this. I was once personally on the receiving end of a complete false sexual harassment allegation from a coworker almost at random (someone I had almost no…

Didn't want to post from my main account to avoid any references and trails. It goes beyond just sexual harassment at work. I was accused by my ex wife. Even before any trials or anything: I lost my job, banks, housing and pretty much anything that requires a background check. I fought this for a year, and everything was dropped, because her friend came as witnesses and explained how she and my ex wife planned on set…

And imagine, had that friend not come forward, you would've been screwed. People mostly assume chicks are the innocent party, people mostly assume men are the guilty party.

And people's excuse is that men "do the most crime", but it's like: well what about male victims who are left in the dirt, what about the fact that men are also victims of the most crime as well.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#435

Post by sva_ » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 11:32 AM UTC

defrost wrote: post #297

sva_ wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this? What is the ethical justification for why addressing the gender imbalance in STEM/software engineering should be such an urgent moral priority? Probably just because $$$. Have you ever seen someone advocate for more female coal miners or truck drivers?

> Have you ever seen someone advocate for more female coal miners or truck drivers? All the time, as they should. They also let women be engineers, geologists, farmers, doctors, etc. Is this surprising to you? [1] https://www.riotinto.com/news/releases/2022/Rio-Tinto-female... [2] https://www.macktrucks.com.au/community/blog/2017/february/m...

Considering the fact that only 4% of Australian truck drivers are female[0], you'd think there'd be more of an effort.

0. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-26/qld-push-for-female-t...

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#436

Post by fennecfoxy » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 11:37 AM UTC

mshake2 wrote: post #206

xeromal wrote: post #2

This specific comment is so annoying >Olohan said he reported the issue to Google’s human resources department the following week, but nothing ever came of the complaint. The HR rep “openly admitted … that if the complaint was ‘in reverse’ — a female accusing a white male of harassment — the complaint would certainly be escalated,” according to the lawsuit.

I was groped by an gay (and well-liked) coworker at a company retreat. I told my boss a few weeks later at a 1-on-1 lunch and he just made a face and then awkwardly changed the subject. Most people are cowards and avoid unpopular actions at all costs so that they can keep their power. Virtue is all an act for power.

And as a gay man myself I've been groped by female colleagues before, had them come up and stand behind me and rub my shoulders/squeeze my back completely unwanted and I've done n o t h i n g about it, because nothing can be done about it.

That's the sad truth. Can't go to anyone and even if I did, they likely won't believe me, whereas she could retaliate and say I was the one that did the touching and she'd be believed with ludicrous immediacy. Life sucks, man.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#437

Post by defrost » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 11:42 AM UTC

sva_ wrote: post #435

defrost wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you ever seen someone advocate for more female coal miners or truck drivers? All the time, as they should. They also let women be engineers, geologists, farmers, doctors, etc. Is this surprising to you? [1] https://www.riotinto.com/news/releases/2022/Rio-Tinto-female... [2] https://www.macktrucks.com.au/community/blog/2017/february/m...

Considering the fact that only 4% of Australian truck drivers are female[0], you'd think there'd be more of an effort. 0. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-26/qld-push-for-female-t...

Not everyone embraces the long haul trucking lifestyle, there's a much higher percentage of women in fork lifts, bob cats, and the uncounted by that poll (which is freight haul trucking only) dream job - remote 100 tonne haul pak operator.

These are all closer to home, have better hours, somewhat better pay for the light machines and exceptional rates for the Haulpaks.

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#438

Post by msm_ » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 12:04 PM UTC

dannyr wrote: post #283

grapehut wrote: post #72

These stories leave a bad taste in my mouth. It hasn't yet gone to court, so the guys allegations could be really be anything from the God's honest truth all the way to a complete fabrication. Yet there is a huge amount of irreparable damage by public stories like this. I was once personally on the receiving end of a complete false sexual harassment allegation from a coworker almost at random (someone I had almost no…

Isn't every lawsuit an unproven claim? Are you proposing that the media should stop covering lawsuits?

Shouldn't people names be anonymised in this case? At least in my country it's the law. Often it's just a theater since either everyone knows the alleged perpetrator, or tabloids do sketchy stuff like "Jane D., daughter of a famous actor John Doe").

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#439

Post by noisy_boy » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 12:19 PM UTC

fidgewidge wrote: post #372

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Believe women” is fine. “Believe all women” is where the problem lies.

What's the difference?

The latter removes any scope for taking circumstances/details into account which is an issue irrespective of gender/age etc (e.g. "believe men" or "believe children" would be equally absurd).

Re: Google exec fired after female boss groped him at drunken bash, suit says

#440

Post by jterrys » Mon, Jan 30, 2023, 12:53 PM UTC

ShredKazoo wrote: post #428

jterrys wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is this? What is the ethical justification for why addressing the gender imbalance in STEM/software engineering should be such an urgent moral priority? My conspiracy theory is that software engineering is the last real, single, meritocratic, growing career path that costs a lot of money for employers and they'd rather tank the market by making sure the other 50% of sex is able to participate to wreck wages. Nob…

I don't think your argument quite works. Suppose I'm a superintendent worried about the teacher shortage. Wouldn't it make sense for me to try & bring more men into the profession, in order to keep salaries low and fill my vacant teaching positions? I think maybe there's a workable argument along these lines: Both nursing and teaching are bureaucratic industries with heavy government involvement. The price system doe…

>Wouldn't it make sense for me to try & bring more men into the profession, in order to keep salaries low and fill my vacant teaching positions?

I think at this point salary already doesn't matter as wages are already depressed. In other words, fishing for true workplace equity isn't an altruistic endeavor as much as cost savings. Once that is achieved, it's irrelevant who populates the industry. Nobody is interested in hiring male teachers as costs are already down and there's plenty of female applicants lined up, even though they actually should in the interests of equity and workplace representation.

Your government bureaucracy argument brings up an interesting tangent. Government agencies should be one of the most inclusive workplace environments, (looking at some US administrations, they generally try to espouse that trend [0][1][2]) so it's only reasonable to assume that the same principles would trickle down to heavily regulated industries. If anything, heavy government involvement would mandate such quotas. But they don't. Which leads me to believe there's something else afoot.

[0]https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

[1]https://facts.usps.com/postal-service-diversity/

[2]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/01/28/racial-ethn...

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