Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lol, like you audit the thousands of lines of code when you compile from source.
Yes, I look at code. I'm professional developer. I will spend 1-2 minutes at scanning per thousand of lines.
Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
431–440 of 443 posts
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what? I can inspect downloaded code and find the backdoor, or a trojan, or an error. I did it few times already in last 30 years. If you cannot do that doesn't mean that nobody can. But I cannot do that with `curl | bash`.
If you can't save the output of curl into a file, you certainly aren't one of the few people capable of meaningfully inspecting anything you download.
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Isn't it better to reach out without invoking a DCMA and see if the other party is willing to cooperate first? That would still be your lawyers talking to their lawyers. The channels for handling DMCA takedowns are much more efficient than channels for handling something custom.
Those channels are illegal to use outside of the copyright issues they're intended for. It's not just a free "hey take this down for me, will ya?" button.
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#434Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trusting Signal to provide the source and host the servers.
Okay, but that's not what any of the parties in this current case are doing: the Snap in question is a third-party build, not a source distribution. My understanding (as an outsider) is that Signal doesn't object to you building yourself a copy of Signal Desktop for source, but they do object to anybody building it for others , especially when they brand it as "Signal." That doesn't seem especially unreasonable to me…
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#435Earlier quoted context omitted.
You mix up concepts. The client app is responsible for e2ee, you don't have to care about the server. So you can actually audit the client code and make sure it is e2ee, which you cannot do with WhatsApp. In other words, for e2ee you must trust WhatsApp, not Signal. I presume that for the outdated code, you think about the server code. That's different and would imply metadata, not message content. Signal is e2ee, an…
> Signal is e2ee, and you don't have to trust them for that. Only if both sides are using clients that are self-compiled, independently-compiled (and audited), deterministic/reproducible or third-party. The problem is that the network and the app are the same people, and worse than that; they send binaries and expect you to trust them. I know lip service is paid to reproducibility but afaik the instructions for doing…
There are two things: First, say the Android apk they distribute has a backdoor, and someone realizes that (it's distributed to millions of people, could be that someone checks). Then that's the end of Signal, right? So that's a big risk for them. That's for the "mass surveillance" scenario. Not perfect, but that's something. Second, if you fear a targeted attack, then self-compile Signal. It's not that difficult if you care about it.
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#436Earlier quoted context omitted.
This threat model was at the heart of Maemo's and later Meego's app store criteria. Both APT and RPM repository trust model is flat: all repositories have the same privileges to make packages available for upload, and can declare any dependencies they choose in their packages. This allows a third party to override any package in the system. Doesn't matter who provides the repository, because ownership can change. Eve…
I think I addressed this in the adjacent reply[1]. Yes, there's a legitimate risk (and accompanying threat model) when trusting package repositories. But I don't understand the specific threat model that involves not trusting Signal's package repository while (1) trusting a random third-party package that (2) just redistributes (in the best case) the official binary. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33455836
I trust Signal, the company, as an author of specific type of communications software. I hesitate to trust them with root on my systems. The company and their intentions are, for the best of my knowledge, benign - but I have seen far too many well-meaning packaging snafus over the past 25 years to add even them to my sources.list.d; and in fact, I believe that with the actions of the company over the past ~three years they have squandered lot of the goodwill they had built up. I'm sorry to say, but the theme to me has felt like one of miscommunication combined with a lack of foresight.
I do trust they have had good reasons for everything. But optics are important, and for stewards of such a critical piece of software Signal have come up with questionably announced surprises. In a domain where boring is the characteristic everyone looks for.[ß]
A bit more context. As of now, there are only two third-party APT repositories that I can stomach. The official Postgres repo, and the Deadsnakes PPA. Both are maintained by the actual package maintainers, so they benefit from the assumed baseline and robustness.
ß: btw, I understand the SMS stuff. From an engineering effort perspective it makes sense, given what shitshow the SMS/MMS protocol stacks are. And with RCS, future integration would not be guaranteed at all. But it still came as a surprise.
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#437Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't get the license without respecting the trademark. e) Declining to grant rights under trademark law for use of some trade names, trademarks, or service marks; or
Read the full context of that rule. The entire section allows those provisions to be applied, it does not make those provisions. The APGLv3 disallows any further restrictions beyond the license to be applied, except for a handful of exceptions. That's one of them. And if such an exception is made, further instructions are provided to inform downstream users of them. Signal did not follow those instructions and didn't…
Signal’s Rights. We own all copyrights, trademarks, domains, logos, trade dress, trade secrets, patents, and other intellectual property rights associated with our Services. You may not use our copyrights, trademarks, domains, logos, trade dress, patents, and other intellectual property rights unless you have our written permission. To report copyright, trademark, or other intellectual property infringement, please contact abuse@signal.org.
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#438Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those channels are illegal to use outside of the copyright issues they're intended for. It's not just a free "hey take this down for me, will ya?" button.
If there was an icon, that could have be what was copyrighted. Perhaps it's from the usage of the deb package. The creator of a project that uses the GPL can actually have a download link to that software which is under a different license that is not freely distributable.
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
Read the full context of that rule. The entire section allows those provisions to be applied, it does not make those provisions. The APGLv3 disallows any further restrictions beyond the license to be applied, except for a handful of exceptions. That's one of them. And if such an exception is made, further instructions are provided to inform downstream users of them. Signal did not follow those instructions and didn't…
Even without that, this is on their website. Signal’s Rights. We own all copyrights, trademarks, domains, logos, trade dress, trade secrets, patents, and other intellectual property rights associated with our Services. You may not use our copyrights, trademarks, domains, logos, trade dress, patents, and other intellectual property rights unless you have our written permission. To report copyright, trademark, or other…
Re: Snap Store administrators removed signal-desktop from Ubuntu Snap
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
If that's the issue, it's (at most) a trademark violation instead of a copyright violation, which means the DMCA complaint was filed under false premises.
I don't see where the source was being offered by the distributors of this package which would mean they were in violation of the AGPL and it was therefore a copyright violation.
But that's not what's going on here. If the source is unchanged, it's perfectly valid (and often done) to just point people upstream. That is providing the source. And the code used to build their snap is available*, and you can see all it does is repackage upstream's official package.
* https://github.com/snapcrafters/signal-desktop/blob/master/s...